maxg Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Aside from my sorting duties (see my other post today) I spent as much time as possible listening to some of my Haydn collection. IMHO ole Joe is one of those composers it is easy to overlook as he was a lot less flashy than Mozart who he was vaguely contemporary with (actually he was a fair bit older but their lives overlapped and as Mozart was only 35 or so when he died their most productive periods could be called contemporary). Both were exemplars of the classical style, although in very different ways. Actually Mozart had a very high opinion of Haydn himself. This was a very rare occurance - the only other composer Mozart seemed to hold in such regard was Mozart. Anyway - the great thing about Joe is that he lived to a reasonable age (77 I think) and was producive for a goodly proportion of it, producing some 108 symphonies and innumerable church and chamber offerings along with a few concerto's, vocal works and what have you. Anyway I was concentrating on the symphonies and managed to squeeze in Nos: 83 - The Hen 94 - The surprise. 101 - The clock 103 - The drumroll. and a few of the earlier symphonies I cant remember the titles and numbers for. And also the trumpet concerto (I think this is both the only one he wrote and the only one I have). (Interestingly the trumpet concerto was not written for the modern trumpet but a short lived "keyed" version although I think that this production used the newer version.) Basically as enjoyable romp as you will find from any classical session and well worth investigating for those of you with growing collections. One other point I have been meaning to raise for an age and constantly forget. If you want to find a way to learn about classical music easily you can do worse than read the stuff on the back of the albums as you listen to the music. These often provide potted histories of the composer himself, providing a very useful clue as to their period, style and so on effectively putting them in context, along with pointers to what is going on in the music and what the different parts of the production are andthings to look out for. I make it a general rule always to read the covers / flysheets and whatever else they thought to pack the record with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Maybe he's overlooked because he's Haydn somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 You know I just saw you had responded and thought to myself - he's not going to do the hidin' joke is he - surely not.... Ya just never let me down Gregg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Maybe there's a way to block my responses... Now that would be a popular button! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Fini -- ***G*R*O*A*N*** Maxg, seek out some of his piano Sonatas. I've learned about 6 of them so far (and there are many), and they are light, whimsical, and delightful to listen to. Most are in 3 movements, classic sonata form, and also home to some of the most reflective 'slow' 2nd movements in the entire literature. Because the majority are not 'virtuostic' (thank the great whatsit) you don't see many of the heavyweight pianists playing them, but they are worth looking for. woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 maxg, Good Point! I find Haydn to be one of the most consistently enjoyable, humerous, and intellectual of composers. One trait I find most amusing is the intros to most of his works would indicate that what's to follow will most certainly put you to sleep. Then the inverse occurs as the pieces develop. Trios, string quartets, concertos, symphonies, etc .. all worth listening time and again. I agree this "Father" of the symphony is often overlooked. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 maxg- I agree that Hayden is often overlooked, but I sometimes find his symphonies a little lacking in the 'emotion' department as compared to some other composers. My personal favorites are Dvorak, Vaughan Williams, and naturally Beethoven. Yes, the covers are an absolute must to read or some of the CD buying guides, like "Gramophone Classical Good Cd Guide" for composer background. They can really put the music into context, which CAN help you to connect with the music. For example, I don't realy like piano concertos, since I feel that the piano really breaks up the consistency of the symphony. However, one of the Philadelphia orchestra concerts played Dvorak 1st piano concerto, I read the Playbill and it noted that there is two versions of the concerto. The first version really minimized the abrupt changes between the piano and the orchestra, since, piano players weren't happy with Dvorak minimizing the importance of the piano, it was modified to showoff the piano more (I don't remember if it was Dvorak or others). Sadly to say, the first version hasn't been recorded much. But it just goes to show you what you can learn from playbills or covers. Just enjoy the music!!! -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 ---------------- On 2/9/2004 1:17:45 PM DrPyro wrote: maxg- I agree that Hayden is often overlooked, but I sometimes find his symphonies a little lacking in the 'emotion' department as compared to some other composers.... Yes, the covers are an absolute must to read or some of the CD buying guides, like "Gramophone Classical Good Cd Guide" for composer background. They can really put the music into context, which CAN help you to connect with the music. For example, I don't realy like piano concertos, since I feel that the piano really breaks up the consistency of the symphony. However, one of the Philadelphia orchestra concerts played Dvorak 1st piano concerto, I read the Playbill and it noted that there is two versions of the concerto. The first version really minimized the abrupt changes between the piano and the orchestra, since, piano players weren't happy with Dvorak minimizing the importance of the piano, it was modified to ‘showoff’ the piano more (I don't remember if it was Dvorak or others). Sadly to say, the first version hasn't been recorded much. But it just goes to show you what you can learn from playbills or covers. Just enjoy the music!!! -Dave ---------------- Dave, You've made a terrific point about the value of liner notes. Much of my "education" came from years of reading liner notes for classical LPs. That value is often still there, but in smaller print, in CD notes. One would have to have a big library of music books and do much searching to get the same info and insights about a piece being listened to. In the emotion dept., I personally find Tchaikovsky symphonies as intense as anything, especially the "Pathetique." I don't have quite your reaction to piano concertos, but do think some composers are better at integrating piano and orchestra. Beethoven, who was superlative at integrating all instruments as far as I'm concerned, did extremely well at this, e.g., all five concertos and the Choral Fantasy. As for Haydn, I think everyone here would agree but just didn't bother to mention it, or maybe it's just me -- the "Creation" is an extraordinary and imaginative work even for Haydn. His world may have been one of elegance rather than the subsequent heroic emotionality that Beethoven spawned. The slow movement of H's "Farewell" (No. 45) is very emtional, but oh-so-restrained. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Leo, Dave and Larry, Interesting, isnt it, the different reactions we each have to Haydn. Whilst this is not at all unusual with any piece of music it probably applies more to Haydn than anyone else due purely to the range of music and styles he employed throughout his lifetime. Some of his symphonies are laid back, others jump up and bite you on the ***. To compare his symphonies to Beethoven's, or even Tchaikovsky's is neither fair nor appropriate. They are very different beasts and each has their place in the history of classical music. My collection would be the poorer without him and that, after all, is what it is all about. Beethoven is a funny one in many ways. To me he was the death of the Symphony. There was almost nowhere left to go, certainly no bettering what he had achieved. The only option left was to go "different" rather than to compete. A set of Beethoven symphonies last's a lifetime and more, but one cannot listen to Beethoven alone. To do so would be to deny so many that went before and even what came after. Beethoven would be the last thing to go from my house musically - probably even if I had no system. Yet, there is the Haydn - in itself, a magnificent distraction from the day's woes, perfectly complete as a musical experience, and, a launching point into all that came after. In many ways Hadyn shares this with Liszt - his influence over the music that followed was simply immense. Maybe next weekend will be a Liszt weekend.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Speaking of overlooked.... One of the things I find missing is much discussion for some of the classical that is more off the beaten path or a bit less mainstream mostly due to the more esoteric nature. Of course, much of this is by more contemporary composers. Some might find this less emotional in some ways but in others, very involving. Our local public radio station, which is the main diet here for classical, now just pours forth the standards, the ones that most of the public calls for, and after exposure to this for a long time, it becomes the virtual "Top 40" of classical. In addition, it's now the norm now to play whole pieces, instead, allowing only for one movement where the emotional and mental message that comes with the entire work is lost, as if a commercial trailer for a movie. Unfortunately, the concerts are becoming more "POPS" motivated as well, especially when you journey farther from cities are University based towns that tend to bring in more challenging works. This is understandable, as it's hard to bring in the ducats with works that are less suited for mass appeal. But I find the this segment really important, just as it is in jazz. Yesterday, I pulled out some Edison Denisov, something I surely dont listen to as often as others but one I also find a great counter to the major or even minor Symphonies or small scale ensembles. As I was listening to a piece, I realized you NEVER EVER hear anything of this nature on our classical station - it actually moved me to write an email. I am lucky enough to live never a University source that brings some great material within the various concert series, but realize that the majority of public just isnt exposed to this. Denisov had some interesting comments here: "Beauty is the principal factor in art, and at the moment quite a few composers are looking for a new kind of beauty. This means not only beautiful sound, which naturally has nothing to do with outward prettiness, but beauty as in beautiful ideas as understood by mathematicians, or Bach and Webern.... I have profitted from Webern... IF there is an element of detachment in Webern's music, it is detached from things that are evil and foul in life, while it is open to all that is good and pure in the human soul. AND FURTHER: Music is the art of thinking logically and composition ideas have a lot in common with the ideas of modern mathematics. My Music shows no direct ties with mathematics, the influence is more subtle,...as for mathematics, I am interested not in particular problems, but in the philosophical aspects of science" To give you an idea of what I am referring to, here is the 4th part of Edison Denisov's TRIO FOR VIOLIN, CELLO, PIANO, entitled Molto agitato Listen to - Edison Densisov: Molto agitato.MP3 kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Kelly, Man you are too weird. What a cacophony! Listen to that? I would rather pickle my own liver. Sounds like the Orchestra tuning its instruments before the performance - but it lasts longer. Each to their own I suppose but one thing - forget my Pier Gynt recommendation - that one is definitely not for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Modern Art, Baby! Cool! As I was listening, I was wondering how different the experience would be if I were intimately familiar with the piece. I'd love to see the score, as well. Do you have this on CD or vinyl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 ---------------- On 2/10/2004 3:41:15 AM maxg wrote: Maybe next weekend will be a Liszt weekend.... ---------------- Perhaps an Excel spreadsheet? REALLY sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 "Perhaps an Excel spreadsheet? REALLY sorry..." No - that one was quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Kelly, I'll look it up. I've been enjoying a lot of atonal compositions receltly (in between the Beethoben and Haydn). Small ensembles do very well with such music. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Just listened to it again - to see if I was missing something. Nope. Not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Kelly, kelly, kelly....I think I just lost all respect for your taste in music! Just kidding, but this 'type' of music I find simply atrocious! I think the whole purpose of music is that it 'speaks' to you on several levels, emotional being one of them. Perhaps its because I'm an engineer and I like things that are much more ordered and less chaotic. This piece exactly is why I usually HATE modern composers, with a few exceptions like Orff and Vaughan Williams. Most modern pieces are very chaotic. I recently went to a US premier of Knussen's Symphony #1, which was also conducted by the composer, it was an extremely chaotic piece and very heavily percussion orientated (about 1/4 of the orchestra was percussion). As one could easily guess, it was written when he was something like 17 and was recently edited. As I walked out of the concert hall, a gentleman next to me exclaimed "Music is suppose to talk to you, and I have no idea what the hell that piece was saying". To each his own, I guess! But I'm with Maxg on this one! Larry- Thanks for the Beethoven suggestions, Ill look into some of his piano concertos! -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.