RB's in a bookshelf

[mineral]

Greetings all.

I'm starting the HT research now, and i'd like to begin with a small question.

I plan on getting a pair of RB's for the front speakers that would be placed inside of a massive bookshelf/wall unit that'll house the tv, center channel, reciever, dvd's etc.

I was wondering what kind of restraints there are to putting RB's in a confined wall unit. How much 'breathing room' does the speaker need? Can it be placed into a section that fits the speaker exactly, or does it need like 8"-1' on each side (right, left, top) for the sound to resonate enough?

Thanks for your time!

[Underhanded Penguin]

If it's the newer RB series (15, 25 ,35 ,75) then you should be fine as the port is front loaded. Having said that bookshelves are not the most ideal place to put speakers because of imaging, soundstage, height, and resonance limitations. Good quality stands are the way to go. The location of speaker in a room will affect imaging and soundstage. The soundstage can be affected by the height of the speaker. And if the speaker is not placed on a good vibration isolating surface, it can affect the imaging and control. Okay now having said that, it should still work fine if you put it in a bookshelf. All it means is you will have less flexibilty to tweak your sound. Then again, you may not be as nitpicky as some serious audiophiles.

-UP

[yromj]

I concur w/ U.P. The only thing to note is that the RB-15's port is in the rear.

I would also make sure that the speaker is very near the front of the bookshelf. That way there won't be any reflections from the bookshelf. Also, don't forget to account for the rubber feet on the speakers, when considering opening sizes.

The major drawback will definitely be tweaking. You may not have as much flexibility w/ speaker height or angle. The latter may affect your ability to adjust the speakers for the best imaging.

All-in-all you can still have a nice sounding system, even though it may not meet the scrutiny of some extreme audiophiles.

John

[Juba310]

I always find it kind of ironic/funny how bookshelves are not ideal spaces for BOOKSHELF speakers

[mineral]

ahhh this is exactly the kind of stuff i wanted to find out about.

i don't have any problem fitting the front RB's on stands in the corners infront or on the side of the bookshelf/wall-unit.

i do consider myself a serious audiophile, though i may not have the experience to perfectly judge some nuances in tweaking for perfection. i guess that shall come with time.

this HT setup is for my parents (aged mid 40s) so i know they won't appreciate every little thing in the setup, but i do want to make the best with what i'll put together for them.

i'm looking for something better than my all-to-perfect promedia 5.1 setup i use for any and all entertainment. i probably won't go as high as RB75, but the RB25-RB35 seems suitable for those who just want to listen to music for house parties and enjoy a real treat when popping in the occassional dvd at night.

any particular stands you'd like to recommend for me?

[ccsakura]

First u have to tell us your budget for the whole setup

If your budget allows you to do the whole setup of ref 25/35 series, go all the way for it. It's a lot or little depends on how much budget you have. The system will be 5.1/6.1 or 7.1? Subwoofer does cost the money as well. And you still need more bucks for the reciever sections. Well once it's from null to full it's like a huge scale upgrade(which your parents need inspiration of sound to solve that )

[mineral]

Well, to be honest, my folks didn't really set out a budget for this project, even after i explained the cost of some of the parts involved. Was even telling them about svs subwoofers going for $600 US and they just kinda smiled and nodded their heads.

I think after having a crap sound system and relatively mediocre tv for the last 15 years, they want a FULL overhaul. Slowly but surely i've been giving them hand-me-downs of computers speakers and i've really got them into the whole world of sound now

I am looking to go ref-series all the way, save the subwoofer. i want to reserve that for something amazing. So price isn't really an issue right now, but i don't want to overkill it either. First time my parents are trusting me with such a project, so i still want to be a tad conservative.

Definately RB-35's...i think that's what i'll stick with.

It'll be a 5.1 btw

[yromj]

As for the stands, Sanus has some nice ones. I got mine from a local dealer (not sure of the brand), and they are very nice looking and stable.

My new system is a Rx-25 system. RB-25 mains, RC-25, and RS-25 surrounds. I am VERY pleased w/ the sound of this system. An Rx-35 system would be very nice as well. (Listen to both, as there is ~50% increase in price in the systems.)

What are you going to do for surrounds, bookshelves or surrounds? If you're going 7.1, you will most definitely want to use bookshelves for the rears. W/ 5.1 the choice is wide open. I ended up choosing the RS-25s over the RB-25s almost strictly because of looks. After installing them, I can say that I am very pleased w/ their sound.

Make sure you clear the size of the sub w/ your parents first. Those SVS subs are not small. It'd be a pity for everything in that system to sound awesome, but your mom never give a chance because of "that big black thing over there". (Of course, your dad will be unable to come to your defense because he'll be standing in the background like the whole time.)

The attached picture shows the cc in my armoire and the mains on their stands, just for reference.

John

[mineral]

Hahah i think you hit the nail right on the head. My old man has a strong passion for listening to his classic rock at high volumes. He's grown very fond of Audioslave so i think this kind of subwoofer would make him do summersaults across the room.

~50% price change is something to consider, definately. I'm curious as to the size of your room where you have your system installed. The designated room for my project isn't your typical rectangular cube...the rear of the room has the ceiling coming down on a weird angle with an opening in the middle where it joins with the window on the front of the house (i will have pictures soon). Other than that, the room is fairly square. But it is big. I don't have the dimensions of it yet, but i have an impulse that the room would be too big for Rx-25 series. If i find otherwise, i'd switch down to those.

Just to go with the flow, i'll probably stick with RS-35's for the rear as well, and i don't see why not to go with the same class center channel. however, i've heard of others who use a 3rd front surround speaker (in this case, RB-35) for their center channel because of some THX compliance ( i think that was their reasoning). I mean that kinda stuff doesn't bother me, but i'd like to know the difference if there is any at all.

So you have reservations about the subwoofer, eh? Weighing in at 90lbs is definately intimidating...but i hear sooooo many good things about svs. and, if it's too powerful for them, it certainly allows me the chance to buy it from them and throw in a klipsch sub of the same class (as the other 5 speakers) in the mix instead.

Right now i'm set on 5.1. My parents love good quality stuff, but they'll think i'm going overboard if i convince them to get 6.1 or 7.1. i want to keep it as cheap as possible seeing as i'll be spending a few thousand canadian on this system alone, not considering the reciever, new dvdplayer and widescreen tv that they also want.

[yromj]

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On 2/16/2004 2:51:57 PM mineral wrote:

Hahah i think you hit the nail right on the head. My old man has a strong passion for listening to his classic rock at high volumes. He's grown very fond of Audioslave so i think this kind of subwoofer would make him do summersaults across the room.

~50% price change is something to consider, definately. I'm curious as to the size of your room where you have your system installed. The designated room for my project isn't your typical rectangular cube...the rear of the room has the ceiling coming down on a weird angle with an opening in the middle where it joins with the window on the front of the house (i will have pictures soon). Other than that, the room is fairly square. But it is big. I don't have the dimensions of it yet, but i have an impulse that the room would be too big for Rx-25 series. If i find otherwise, i'd switch down to those.

Just to go with the flow, i'll probably stick with RS-35's for the rear as well, and i don't see why not to go with the same class center channel. however, i've heard of others who use a 3rd front surround speaker (in this case, RB-35) for their center channel because of some THX compliance ( i think that was their reasoning). I mean that kinda stuff doesn't bother me, but i'd like to know the difference if there is any at all.

So you have reservations about the subwoofer, eh? Weighing in at 90lbs is definately intimidating...but i hear sooooo many good things about svs. and, if it's too powerful for them, it certainly allows me the chance to buy it from them and throw in a klipsch sub of the same class (as the other 5 speakers) in the mix instead.

Right now i'm set on 5.1. My parents love good quality stuff, but they'll think i'm going overboard if i convince them to get 6.1 or 7.1. i want to keep it as cheap as possible seeing as i'll be spending a few thousand canadian on this system alone, not considering the reciever, new dvdplayer and widescreen tv that they also want.

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I've attached a .jpg of my living room. You can see that it's definitely not your normal room. (This .jpg was created in an effort to find a better location for my sub, since there is no corner in the room.) BTW, my ceilings are 9' throughout.

The RB-25s more than satisfy me. However, I also am a firm believer in "Better Safe Than Sorry". So definitely consider both.

I want an SVS so badly I can taste it!!! So I understand your point perfectly. Again, just trying to play devil's advocate here. I think the 25-39 PC+ may be a consideration. Not too big but still able to deliver. Another company which makes awesome subs which are on the smaller end of the spectrum is Sunfire. Check prices though, because I think they may be high $.

I have heard of (and actually prefer) the use of another bookshelf for the center. This would be most beneficial in a 6.1 system w/ bookshelves all around. (Perfect timbre matching and bookshelves are sold in pairs, thus the 6.1.)

The RSs may be a good choice for that room if it's fairly large and odd shaped. I like the way fill up my room. I think they probably do sound better than the RBs would have. (But I'm not about to borrow some RBs and find out either. No sense wanting what you can't have.) BTW, the main advantage for perfectly matched speakers is w/ multi-channel music.

Your parents are going to be getting a sweet system. I wish my son would have bought me my new speakers. But since he's only 4 he's having to work pretty hard just to make rent.

John

[tom67]

complex subject ...I have RB5s on top shelf 7ft high, angled down with 12 ft ceilings, 6 inches from back wall. They are fine for moderate listening levels and boomy with high volume. So....it may depend on how you listen. The new series have front ports which solve some of the problems....but no doubt someone here may opine that front ports provide a noise problem of their own.....havent heard them myself.

[mineral]

well.........that's definately a peculiar setting for your HT hehe. a lot more than i was gushing about hehe i've just got a weird ceiling in the back, but the front and more than half of the room is a perfect rectangular room. i will get the measurements and try to illustrate them as best as possible to further this discussion of ours.

and how is it you feel the rb-25's (and essentially the whole Rx-25 series) are 'more than enough' for you? They sustain enough clarity and volume to all your hearts content? or are they merely good enough for what your environment can deliver/allow?

[yromj]

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On 2/17/2004 8:02:19 PM mineral wrote:

and how is it you feel the rb-25's (and essentially the whole Rx-25 series) are 'more than enough' for you? They sustain enough clarity and volume to all your hearts content? or are they merely good enough for what your environment can deliver/allow?

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They sustain enough clarity (criteria No. 1 for me) and volume (criteria No. 2) to all my hearts content. I'll sum it up this way, even at background music listening levels, details are still clear. I've got ample power for watching movies at high volume levels. BTW, the receiver powering this system isn't anything fancy at all. It's a JVC 9010VBK.

John

[mineral]

ahhh the reciever. that's where i fall dead in the water. i have no experience and hardly any knowledge about that part of the system.

[yromj]

Well the short answer is the best Denon you can afford. For example, a 2803 or a 3803. The 3805 is coming out very soon as well. Forum member lovebohn has a 2803 for sale here. (I hope that's OK to post here. If it's not let me know gently, and I'll remove it.)

The long, correct answer is to audition receivers w/ your choice of speakers. Some brands that are known to do well w/ Klipsch are Denon, Harmon Kardon, and Pioneer Elite. These receiver tend to be a little on the warm side which complements Klipsch's brightness quite well. Bright receivers, such as Yamaha, aren't favored by most people. (The previous comments are to be taken as "generally speaking".)

My advice, and others will jump in here w/ theirs as well, is to find a few receivers which have the features you're looking for. (DSP modes, no. and types of inputs, dual zone, programmable remote, etc.) One thing to note about features, I didn't list the power as one to look for. IMHO, given the inconsistancy of power ratings from manufacturer to manufacturer, and the efficiency of Klipsch speakers, power is not a feature to fret over. Next, audition the receivers w/ the speakers. If your Klipsch dealer doesn't have a wide variety to listen to, then choosing gets a little harder. It boils down to the features YOU (or in this case, your parents) want and a sound YOU like.

Hope this helps. I'd like some of the gurus around here to comment on my receiver advice. I gave the procedure I would use. If others have anything to add please do so, so I can learn as well.

John