slush Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I've been piecing together my 2-channel audio sytem for some time now out of monitary necessity, etc. I know little about it which doesn't help, but I do appreciate great sound quality. I need some help in improving the sound of what I have so far: (2) Klipsch RF-3 II, Klipsch KSW-12 sub. B & K 2X125 driving the RF-3 II's. Using Denon Reciever (can't remember model right now) as preamp (have B & K and sub connected to preout on Denon) I don't seem to be enjoying a full spectrum of sound from this set-up, especially at low volumes. What would be the biggest improvement I could make to this arrangement? Any other suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Well, what is your source for CD player and DVD player? Have you ever considered tube amplification vs. your solid state? You can pick up a nice Dynaco Stereo tube amp completely rebuilt and ready in the $659 range and go with a nice tube preamp in the $400 range, that will be heads and tales better than the solid state Denon and B&K reciever, will have lots of good power and that smooth, warm and detailed tube sound. The Denon is ok but for Klipsch Horns to sound the best, they love having tube amps for power sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Sounds like some decent equipment to me. Have you tried any loudness contour at you lower volume's. It also sounds like your feeding the sub a full-range signal, and letting it extract the LF's, and passing the highs to your RF3II's, Is this correct? Or are you using a Y connector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slush Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Yes, you are correct I am feeding the sub full range, letting it extract the LF and then to the speakers. I am not sure what you mean by "contouring". Obviosly, many things I read on this forum are over my head. One thing I certainly don't understand is the references to "tube amps/hardware" vs solid state as referenced in the first response I received. How do you tell and what is the difference? slush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slush Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Thanks for the response. Source for the CD player (an old Sony CDP C315) is the Denon AVR-1802. The B&K isn't a receiver, only a power amp - I have that pushing the RF-3II's only. As I mentioned, it is connected to the preout of the Denon. The Denon is running surround in one room, stereo speakers "B" in another room (these are an old pair of RTR Series IV speakers)as well as the CD player for all rooms. I guess that's clear. Does this additional info help? When you mention "tube hardware for your amp and preamp" you're talking over my head. What does that mean and what is the difference? slush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Could you describe what you think, as specifically as you can. you're missing in your current set up? Lack of bass, too bright, etc? I own the RF-3's and love the sound I get from them. What is absolutely critical with the RF-3's is placement in the listening room. Having these in the corners at the front of the listening area is a good idea. I've also toed them in a bit. For reference, follow the speaker placement suggestions in your RF-3 owner's guide. Next, I'm one of those who believe that the right interconnects make a difference. The interconnects between your amp and Denon might be experiemented with to see if you can wring some additional sound out of your set up. I use a Marantz SR-19 EX receiver as my preamp/processor. It was OK, but I was lacking some detail and richness from the music. I upgraded to external amps, as you have already done, and noticed a big improvement. Klipsch speakers are very amp dependant. Some folks here have used B&K amps with success. However, you might experiment with some of the above items first, and if you have no success, see if you can test drive some different amplifiers from a local retailer. Most of the good ones will let you take a product home to try out in your system at home to see if it is a good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Maybe I'm obtuse, but why would anyone suggest tube kit for a total stranger and first time poster.Especially with no knowledge of what that poster was trying to accomplish? Puzzled, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 And on to the cable upgrades! Amazed, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 My apologies,Whell.Overall SOUND ADVICE!! Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slush Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Thanks for the response. I think at low volume I don't hear the full range of sound. I can get the bass from the sub and highs from the RF-3's, but the sound lacks continuity - richness as you mention. Let's say maybe a tinnier sound from the RF-3's and deep base from the sub, but not a blended sound all together. I too have the RF-3's in corners and toed in. I only recently added the B&K amp to the RF-3's and you're right it made a big difference. I am not sure what my other options are with the interconnects are right now except for connecting the RF-3's to the "B" output of the Denon instead of the preout. Although I can't do it right now, would adding say a B&k (or whatever you might suggest) preamp and isolating the music system from the Denon would have much of an impact? I suppose the CD player I am using isn't helping much either. slush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 IMO, Denon receivers don't make the greatest pre-amps. At least, that was true with my Denon AVR-3300 receiver. So, you may be on the right track in terms of using a separate preamp/amp for your 2-channel listening, and using a source switch (or tried-and-true cable swapping) to share speakers, if necessary, between the 2 systems (which is what I'm doing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I think what's happening is that you're hearing too much separation between the RF3's and the sub. I think you should consider getting a new preamp to go with your B&K amp and hook that up full range to the RF3's. Work with the placement of the speakers and perhaps a little tweaking with the tone and loudness controls. Try to get used to listening to that setup for a while and see how you like it. Only add the sub if you feel you need it, but keep the RF3's full range and just add barely enough sub to fill in the bottom. Maybe consider a speaker upgrade instead of the sub. I don't know your budget, but if it's limited, used preamps can be had on ebay for less than $150. Try a used Carver. I don't know that tubes are appropriate for you yet, they are sometimes problematic and best appreciated after you've got a good handle on your SS two-channel setup. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 It sounds like you may have tried playing around with placement of the speakers in the room but we shouldn't jump to conclusions. Aren't these speakers rear ported? If so, then the cheapest tweak is to move them closer and farther away from the back wall to see how it changes the sound. With my speakers (I know, different animal) the rear port is greatly impacted by moving only a couple of inches. If you haven't done so already, you should play around with spacing from the walls. Next, I'd find an SPL meter and a disc with frequency tones to tune your current sub to the speakers. It's a little money, but cheaper than looking at replacement equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slush Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 OK I'll ask, what is an "SPL meter, etc."? Where are these things purchased and how is it done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 You can get a Sound Pressure Level meter at just about any Radio Shack. Someone else may have to recommend a sound check disc. I use a Mobile Fidelity disc that is out of print, and already had it on hand from collecting MFSL discs. It probably doesn't matter though. Sorry to lead you down this path, but unless you have a parametric eq it probably won't do you much good anyway. I forget that not everyone has a way to eq the sub. You could still use it to set levels, but it probably won't be much better than doing it by ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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