Replacing ALL the wires-How much improvment?

[DwK]

I may be getting a second set of pro's, someone on this board emailed me saying he would sell me his..

I was thinking about taking them apart, and replacing All the wires that can be replaced with like 18-16 gauge wires. And getting better Jacks, and wires to my speakers.

Would I see a good improvment?

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Living Room:

Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier

2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch

2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch

My Room:

Klipsch Pro Medias

2 Fisher Surrounds

[OuTpaTienT]

Have you seen the inside of the Pro's? You'll probably find that there is no reason to replace the wires inside the sats. I don't know what guage it is, but I was impressed at the good thick wire used and the perfect soldering joints inside the sats. I haven't looked inside the sub yet.

However, I can tell ya this. I once replaced the wires on the inside of a couple MTX truck speakers. I initially installed the wire upgrade on just one of the two box speakers so I could hear them side-by-side and see what the difference is. And the difference was...NOTHINGc>. I really really wanted to hear a difference too. Even the slightest, barely audible improvement would've helped to justify the project. Still, nothing, I could not tell the difference between the two speakers.

[SomeGuy15]

quote:

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Originally posted by OuTpaTienT:

However, I can tell ya this. I once replaced the wires on the inside of a couple MTX truck speakers. I initially installed the wire upgrade on just one of the two box speakers so I could hear them side-by-side and see what the difference is. And the difference was...

NOTHING

c>. I really really

wanted

to hear a difference too. Even the slightest, barely audible improvement would've helped to justify the project. Still, nothing, I could not tell the difference between the two speakers.

---

Oh look the truth! Expensive speaker cables won't improve or even change the sound of cheap speakers. I truly feel sorry for the people who have wasted money for Kimber or Monster cables for their Pros.

I cannot believe you guys still want speaker cable upgrades as an option! Replacing the dodgy stereo jack with something more sturdy and reliable is a good move, but expensive cables... stupid!

[OuTpaTienT]

Sorry Guy but you're still way off the mark. The wire included in my 2.1 package was inferior and defective. And this, at least seemed, to be the norm. So yes, the wire does need to be upgraded. Not necessarily to a thicker guage, because that is NOT the issue. Monster Cable or the like is not needed, but decent QUALITYc> wire is needed.

[SomeGuy15]

If the cable was defective, say the sound would cut off if you twisted the cable, then there is a problem with Klipsch's quality control. This is covered under the warranty and Klipsch should replace the cable.

If this happens a lot, they need to source their cables from someone else. It shouldn't have to be an option to purchase speakers with working connectors. It shouldn't cost Klipsch more than an extra $2-3 per set for cables that work.

HOWEVER what I'm trying to get across is that getting thick OFC/silver or brand names like QED, Dunlavy, Monster or Kimber WILL NOT change the sound quality. People seem to have this idea that they can noticeably change the sound quality of their Promedias using these cables.

It WILL NOT make the sats sound better. It WILL NOT improve the high frequencies. It WILL NOT improve the midrange. It WILL NOT improve the bass.

If there's one thing you guys should be asking for is better cooling for the amps.

Instead of Klipsch spending $15 on some super think cable as an option, they should put the money on larger heatsinks and possibly a fan on EVERY model.

[Seb]

you'd have improvements if you switched to bigger-gauge wires from the amp (sub) to the sats. i don't think it would make a difference whether you bought Monster or big-gauge Radio Shack generic cables, though.

replacing the miniplugs by honest-to-goodness clips or banana plug-style connectors would also improve the contact, and therefore the sound quality, or at least it would prevent some connections issues I've heard of in the past (i.e. "I have to turn the plug for the speakers to work properly")

[DwK]

I think I'll open up a sat, and take out the 1/8th jack, and make it straight speaker wire.

------------------

Living Room:

Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier

2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch

2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch

My Room:

Klipsch Pro Medias

2 Fisher Surrounds

[Windstorm]

I did this to my 4.00's, soldered 16 gauge right to the speakers. Pretty noticeable difference, although it could be because my rear cables are about 40 feet. It was pretty easy to do on the 4.00's since they only have a cap btw the midbass and tweeters, the 4.1's have a croosover IC in each sat so it may be harder... but it did improve quality a bit.

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Caring is the first step toward disappointment.

[nightkidz]

i can definitely hear the difference after the speaker wire upgrade.

[OuTpaTienT]

It should not be much more difficult with the crossover in the sats. The crossover in my 2.1s just have a couple large flat metal prongs (male) comming off of the circuit board. The wire from the rear jack simply is snapped onto these connectors (not a soldered connection), so it's a breeze to open up the sats and get rid of that jack.

Then just run that new wire through the hole where the jack was, and solder it directly to the metal prongs on the CB.

Note:c> Because you're soldering to a connection on a circuit board, please be careful and only attempt it if you're confident in your soldering skills. If you burn or scorch the circuit board you're gonna have a hard time fixing it. It's not difficult at all, as long as you know the basics of soldering. If you're not comfortable soldering it yourself, then just connect your wire to the crossover the same way the jack was connected. You can get those same type of connectors at Radio Shack.

Here's a pic of a jack & attached wire that I pulled from one of my sats:

This message has been edited by OuTpaTienT on 07-04-2001 at 07:34 PM

[Superdave99]

I replaced the speaker wire in my v2.400 speakers with 16 gauge monster XP soldered to Radio Shack gold plated 1/8" interconnects. I did not replace the female speaker jacks in the speakers. I am using a SB Live sound card. OK, here are my impressions:

If you are expecting a dramatic improvement in sound, you will be disappointed. In fact, you might not even like the new sound of your speakers with the new cables installed, at least this was my immediate impression. After installation, I felt that the sound coming from my speakers has less full and warm. To make sure my observations were correct, I hooked up one speaker with Monster cable and one with the stock wires. I also turned off the sub. Sure enough, the speaker connected with the monster cable sounded thinner and more "distant." The midrange "gap" seemed to be made worse with the wire swap. I had been listening to rock, so I decided to try something different and popped in an opera CD. Here there was a significant difference, this time in favor of the monster cable. Vocals and instruments sounded clearer and more distinct with the upgraded connections. The stock wire made it seems like the performer was behind a curtain, whereas the monster cable sounded more like a live performance.

In the end I decided to stick with the monster interconnects because I felt they produced more detailed and accurate sound. In doing so I sacrificed the fuller midrange of the stock wires, but the new sound was easy to get used to.

Were the sonic benefits worth the $60 for cables and jacks? I would say no. It might, however, be worth it if you need to replace the rear wires with longer ones anyway. I would advice checking out Radio Shack speaker wire, as I can't imagine that the Monster brand would offer a significant performance edge.

[SomeGuy15]

quote:

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Originally posted by Windstorm:

I did this to my 4.00's, soldered 16 gauge right to the speakers. Pretty noticeable difference, although it could be because my rear cables are about 40 feet. It was pretty easy to do on the 4.00's since they only have a cap btw the midbass and tweeters, the 4.1's have a croosover IC in each sat so it may be harder... but it did improve quality a bit.

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quote:

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i can definitely hear the difference after the speaker wire upgrade.

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You guys still don't understand.

Replacing the wires and soldering it directly to the crossover will not improve the sound of your speakers, it'll just remove the crackling caused by the lousy connection, NOTHING ELSE.

Unless the wires are actually defective, replacing them, even with thick wires won't change the sound.

You're using cheap computer speakers with even cheaper amplifiers... how the hell do you expect an improvement? You're fooling yourself if you think there is a definate improvement.

EVERY BLIND TEST HAS PROVED THAT UNLESS YOU'RE USING EXPENSIVE SPEAKERS (OR ELECTROSTATICS) AND EXPENSIVE AMPS, CHANGING WIRES WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING.

I believe this demonstration by Dr Dunlavy says it all

--------------------

Mr. Dunlavy has often gathered audio critics in his Colorado Springs lab for a demonstration.

"What we do is kind of dirty and stinky," he said. "We say we are starting with a 12 WAG zip cord, and we position a technician behind each speaker to change the cables out."

The technicians hold up fancy-looking cables before they disappear behind the speakers. The critics debate the sound characteristics of each wire.

"They describe huge changes and they say, 'Oh my God, John, tell me you can hear that difference,'" Mr. Dunlavy said.

The trick is the technicians never actually change the cables, he said, adding, "It's the placebo effect."

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Why u guys keep wasting your money is beyond me.

[DwK]

Hey hey, calm down

I can see where your coming from, and some day I think I will do my own test.

As for Superdave. WHY would you sacrifice Midrange? THese speakers are already lacking in the midrange... that just seems silly to me.

ohh well.

------------------

Living Room:

Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier

2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch

2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch

My Room:

Klipsch Pro Medias

2 Fisher Surrounds

[Superdave99]

quote:

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As for Superdave. WHY would you sacrifice Midrange? THese speakers are already lacking in the midrange... that just seems silly to me.

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Because I blew $60 on these connections! (j/k) In truth, I do think the Monster's more detailed sound was better overall.

[OuTpaTienT]

You're not sacrificing mid-range at all. Seems to me that with your upgrade you simply gained clearer highs & lows. With the original connections the highs & lows were muddied so you could hear more mid-range.

You're MUCH better off by going with the cleanest signal the equipment can produce and then if necessary alter the sound to suit your taste with the EQ or alternate speaker placement or what-have-ya.

But to intentionally muddy the sound by using lesser quality components...now that seems silly to me.

uTpaTienT

This message has been edited by OuTpaTienT on 07-05-2001 at 12:34 PM

[DwK]

Someguy correct me if I am wrong here.

If we upgrade our Speaker wires and instead of a 1/8th hook up on the back we have Straight Speaker wire hook ups.

Now you got this signal being sent through 16 guage Monster Cable till it reachs the plugs on the Speaker. From the Plubs to the actualy Speaker, you have tiny *** wires.

Its like having information sent through a Fiber Optics network, till it suddently reaches a ISDN line.

Just seems to me there would have to be some improvement. Because as soon as the signal reaches those small wires, it looses something.

------------------

Living Room:

Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier

2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch

2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch

My Room:

Klipsch Pro Medias

2 Fisher Surrounds

[OuTpaTienT]

This is what I initailly tried to tell you...there aren't "tiny ***" wires inside the sats. The wires connecting the crossover to the actual speakers is a thicker guage than the speaker wire that's included in the package!

Just open one up and take a look. It'll take ya all of about 30 seconds to do. You'll probably see that the wiring inside the sats is more than sufficient and doesn't need to be upgraded.

[SomeGuy15]

quote:

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Originally posted by DwK:

Someguy correct me if I am wrong here.

If we upgrade our Speaker wires and instead of a 1/8th hook up on the back we have Straight Speaker wire hook ups.

Now you got this signal being sent through 16 guage Monster Cable till it reachs the plugs on the Speaker. From the Plubs to the actualy Speaker, you have tiny *** wires.

Its like having information sent through a Fiber Optics network, till it suddently reaches a ISDN line.

Just seems to me there would have to be some improvement. Because as soon as the signal reaches those small wires, it looses something.

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Thats the thing, you don't lose sound quality, maybe a small fraction of the power, not that your ears can actually tell the difference.

As for the 1/8" jack, if its was done properly in the first place with a good connection, then you won't hear any differences.

Some people are having crackling problems and apparently this is due to the poor workmanship in the satellites. In this case, if done right, hooking up the cables directly to the crossover will stop the crackling, but won't improve the sound quality. There is no scientific reason why it would.

With your Fibre Optic/ISDN analogy, your ISP has a huge connection to the "net" while you have a 56K connection. Do you get garbled rubbish at your end? The information you get is just as good as the information the ISP gets.

[DwK]

I can understand what your saying.

Makes sense... little hard to comprehend.

But i'm open minded and ... like to think i'm kinda smart to.

So I'm not going to argue.

------------------

Living Room:

Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier

2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch

2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch

My Room:

Klipsch Pro Medias

2 Fisher Surrounds

[farout]

When I get the 5.1s I think i will get some jumper cables and cut the ends off and use then as speaker wire. Come on guys, these are computer speakers we're talking about not some $100k loadspeaker set-up. I don't want to offend anyone but it's gettin' kinda goofy with all the mods.