Veneer availability for Khorn/Belle

[the plummer]

Hey Guys(&Gals):

I usually hang out in the HT Forum, but I think this would be the most knowledgeable audiance to pose this query.

As some of you may remember, my wife and I are in the planning stages of a new home, complete w/ a 25X57 HT/game room.

I'm wanting to use a Belle for the center and Khorns for the mains. I will use my Chorus I's for rear mains and my Heresy II's for the rear surround or to fill the back of the room beyond the theater portion.

My question is this:

The wife and I have decided on wood color for the home. We are going with Hickory. I'm wondering if Klipsch has ever offered either Belle's or Khorn's in Hickory, if they currently would offer them new, or do I need to find the speakers and have them re-veneered to match.

If I go new, this will seriously hamper my budget, but I also feel more confident in the purchase over the used market.

I may also consider staying with the oiled oak, as it has a decent, but not perfect match to the rest of the decor.

I've found a nice pair of 85 Belle's in oiled oak, but I think $2500 is a little much and they are 2000 miles away. $500 for shipping.

Any thoughts or suggestions.

[Audible Nectar]

Plummer,

It sounds like you need refininshing if Hickory is demanded. I'm not sure what stock finish is closest (not a woodworker), but it sounds like your OO finish is reasonably acceptable. Forum member Andy (HDBRBuilder) would know quite a bit about finishing and such - he built speaker cabinets at Klipsch for many years, and knows much about woodworking.

There is also a fellow by the name of Jordan Jensen (Jorjen) who has threads on Khorn and Cornwall restoration/reveneering. I'm sure he could give you some information regarding finish options. I don't think he does this as a business, but seems very knowledgeable about the processes.

If you do decide to stay in oak oil though, you might want to grab those Belles, if they are in good shape. OO finish Belles don't come around very often (rare enough that I gave up looking for them and switched all my Klipsch to Walnut). I realize that you are making a critical decision on finish choice, based on what you find out about restoration/reveneering costs, but those OO Belles are rare. If they are in good condition, that price is not out of line. You might look a while before finding another pair in OO - that finish wasn't offered for that long on Belles - and not many were sold in that finish - the majority were walnut, and Belle sales were relatively low during the time OO finish was offered - mid 80's to 90's. One of our forum members had one single OO Belle made for him recently, special order, when Klipsch put the big Heritage back into production - due to the difficulty in finding them in the used market.

[HDBRbuilder]

Hickory is NOT a preferable WOOD for use in either cabinetry OR veneers PRIMARILY due to most of the true Hickory species having a bad tendency to check badly in solid woods, to split apart along grain lines in veneers, and the toughness of hickory on cutting edges of saw blades and router bits and such. Another bad tendency hickory has in woodworking applications is that when it is being sawn, it is BEST to season it instead of kiln-drying it...because what appears to the sawyer to be a nice straight-grained board as it leaves the saw, after kiln-drying, will often curl up and warp and/or twist badly...this tendency is reduced somewhat through seasoning instead of kiln-drying...but the tendency is STILL there. Hickory finally used in furniture or veneers is already, to some extent, "specially-selected" because so much of it never makes it that far to begin with. Seasoning of hickory takes TIME...LOTS of time...therefore translating to MONEY. It IS a beautiful wood WHEN it CAN be used in furniture applications, though. The predominant species varieties MOST OFTEN found in any woodworking applications are mockernut and shagbark (or scaley bark)...sometimes pignut.

Straight/tight-grained Hickory is highly-prized for strong but shock-absorbant/resiliant handles for shovels, axes, post-hole diggers, hammers, and such. It was also used for hand-split shake shingles in many areas in the past, predominantly in less-humid hill regions where it is plentiful. It also makes excellent hardwood flooring, especially good for use on basketball court floors...due to its "lively" nature. One seldom finds it used in furniture, though...unless it is a very old piece that has non-laminated bentwood arms, as found on some "menagerie" pieces made from a variety of wood types, such as some very old bentwood-armed rockers (I am sitting in one of these as I type this).

Often, it is another wood finished to look like hickory, instead of hickory, itself, in cabinetry applications as a veneer. Similar woods to hickory in grain-structure appearance are red oak, mountain ash, butternut, and pecan. As far as I know, no Klipsch speakers were ever made using hickory veneers.

There is absolutely NO reason why black walnut or oak speakers can't be found aesthetically pleasing within the confines of a room that has woodwork of, or is finished in the appearance of, hickory. Too many people get caught up in perfect matching of a room's architectural woodwork and the furniture used within that room. It is generally more pleasing to the eye to have different woods used for the furniture as compared to a room's architectural woodwork. For example, black walnut furniture in an oak room provides a pleasant compare/contrast to the eye...IOW a relatively lightly-colored woodworked room with darker furniture...or vice versa. There are way too many so-called "interior decorators"/"interior designers" who somehow gain an undeserved good reputation, based primarily on the huge amount they charge...who don't have a clue as to what is actually aesthetically pleasing to the eye! For the past decade or so, the "TREND" has been towards lighter-colored light-gathering rooms...with lighter-finished oak being the predominant interior woodworking theme. Trends change. Classic darker furniture woods like black walnut are ALREADY making a comeback, from what I have seen, lately. Oak-type woods have already "had their day" as the "trend of the 90's" and some people just seem to want to hang onto that trend. I well imagine that soon the popular trend of the last few years for light-color-finished sugar-sap-streaked cherry will be history too! After all, in the heyday of colonial furniture-making, no self-respecting woodworker would EVER have used sugar-sap-streaked cherry in one of his projects because it was considered inferior grade and was relegated to the wood-stove for heating the shop, instead.

Often, trends in furniture woods used are based on availability/cost of the hardwoods deemed best for furniture-making. IOW, the furniture makers have a difficult time selling furniture made from expensive woods, so they opt for the less expensive woods in order to sell their wares quickly. This causes the "decorators/designers" of the day to go with these woods because they are most available in already manufactured furniture pieces. They push these woods, thereby establishing the trends through their recommendations.

For two world wars, we pretty much depleted the huge amounts of final growth black walnut by using it primarily to supply rifle gunstocks for our soldiers and the soldiers of our allies. This resulted in the price of black walnut skyrocketing throughout the 1950's... through the 1970's...and into the 1980's. BUT...now that gunstocks for military applications are made from synthetics, and even the vast majority of sporting arms are using dyed-laminated-wood stocks OR synthetics, our native black walnut final-growth trees have made a comeback and are becoming plentiful again...which is causing the price for black walnut to stabilize and even go down in some cases. Look for its use in furniture to be the next "trend" soon! Just MHO!

[the plummer]

HDBRBuilder:

I agree with almost all of what you have said and I agree that the oiled oak speakers would look satisfactory with hickory trim.

I do disagree with the thought of not using hickory for cabinetry though. I am a residential plumber and have seen about 5 homes where the cabinetry and trim have been done in a polyurethaned hickory, in other words natural, and I feel that the cabinets were outstanding. Both in quality, straightness of grain, tightness, and there were no checks in these cabinets. One such set of cabinets were made using the "sap" wood and I must say that the color variances appeared to range from maple to cherry or even walnut. This is absolutely astounding and appealing to the eye.

I also agree that different woods should be used and I feel tha by using the hickory throughout the home will allow all furniture choices to blend well with the home as it becomes dated.

Here in the Mid-West, oak tends to never go out of style. I guess since the Ozark Mountains are full of it. Funny thing though most oak products come from out of state though.

I just thought that a pair of hickory Khorns would look incredible, with the multi color grain on that huge front face of the woofer cabinet. Almost like rosewood, without the symetrical pattern often made by such roll cut verneers.

If there has been no such animal ever produced, I will probably seek the units in Oiled Oak to match my current setup. Since I have found out that new speakers are better than double the vintage ones, new ones are probably out, unless I can find a dealer that doesen't need to double or triple his markup. I am also gathering that the factory crossovers and internal wiring are open to scrutiny (spelling), and I may have a better chance of obtaining speakers with the desirable AA crossover upgrades. I know my wife would never let me tear into anything that costs $7000+ in hopes of improving it.

I have also fallen in love with a natural oak ball and claw Olhausen pool table to match the decor. This coulpled with leather or suede overstuffed couches and plenty of Jesse Barnes prints and I think the theater would be a treat to all the senses...

[HDBRbuilder]

Plummer,

I didn't say that that hickory is NEVER used for cabinetry...I just said it is not a "CHOICE" wood for cabinetry usage...for the reasons given above. With hickory, you often end up with sizable amounts of waste from checked board ends...which is expensive waste. It is very hard on thickness planer knives and other power CUTTING tools' edges, too!

As for me, I would never use sapwood for ANY cabinetry...maybe you were referring to the heartwood...the sapwood is right under the bark on hardwood trees, is pithy, and is generally sawn off the log as a part of the slabwood that is normally used for pulpwood (or in the case of hickory, charcoal briquets making), or whatever.

For a number of years there was a handle mill almost next-door to Klipsch in Hope, AR. They used hickory for making shovel handles and such there. I used to go over there to the "burn pile" behind that mill and get warped/twisted handle culls (they kiln-dried the handles AFTER milling them from "green" logs and lots of them warped and twisted so badly they couldn't be used) to use for smoking venison all the time...was great stuff for that! I also have pine & mixed hardwood timberland not far from Hope...I come from many generations of timber people/saw-mill owner/operators. My land has quite a few oaks and hickory trees on it, in addition to black walnut, large southern yellow pine "volunteers", etc.

In those areas, hickory is one of the final-growth trees in the natural ecosystem along with its cousin, the black walnut...they share the same highly-efficient composite leaf structure so commonly found in final growth trees in natural ecosystems in the area. Pecan also shares this leaf structure, is a cousin, and is a final growth tree in its native-pecan version. Depending upon the soil structure and proximity to free-flowing water sources, many oak varieties will also share final growth status with the hickories and their cousins in those natural ecosystems. I don't "tree-farm"...I just occasionally (every 15-20 years)do a slight selective thinning of large trees and let nature take its course...the squirrels do my planting for me!