the plummer

Coax makes sense to me, since only ones or zero's are transmitted through the digital cable. your equipment Recreates the sound once it receives the "road map" of how to do it. The only advantage to optical digital is if your DVD player is in New York and your Processor is in California and zero time delay is a necessity.

You would think that since it is so hard to find a dealer for Heratige speakers, much less a dealer that has something in stock to listen to, Klipsch would at least sell a limited amount to Forum members at say 20 to 30 percent off list. I guarantee many of us would buy new instead of used if given this opportunity. We're the diehard fans and think about it a certain amount of guaranteed sales is better than the inflated "maybe" sales that are sold by the "botiques"(spelling). That's just like me, If I have a contractor that uses me exclusively, I give him the good guy discount. In converse. The one timer. Gets top price. I think its unfair to charge two to three times cost for these beasts that the botiques charge. Moderators are you listening????????????????????

To add to J4knee's bit: One of my best friends advice, ( a 75+ year old machinest and still going strong), "Remember, Quality remains long after price is forgotten". With this in mind just go order 5 brand new Khorns and be done with it. I will be as soon as I get the WAF to let me have ten minutes with the corporate checkbook.

HDBRBuilder: I agree with almost all of what you have said and I agree that the oiled oak speakers would look satisfactory with hickory trim. I do disagree with the thought of not using hickory for cabinetry though. I am a residential plumber and have seen about 5 homes where the cabinetry and trim have been done in a polyurethaned hickory, in other words natural, and I feel that the cabinets were outstanding. Both in quality, straightness of grain, tightness, and there were no checks in these cabinets. One such set of cabinets were made using the "sap" wood and I must say that the color variances appeared to range from maple to cherry or even walnut. This is absolutely astounding and appealing to the eye. I also agree that different woods should be used and I feel tha by using the hickory throughout the home will allow all furniture choices to blend well with the home as it becomes dated. Here in the Mid-West, oak tends to never go out of style. I guess since the Ozark Mountains are full of it. Funny thing though most oak products come from out of state though. I just thought that a pair of hickory Khorns would look incredible, with the multi color grain on that huge front face of the woofer cabinet. Almost like rosewood, without the symetrical pattern often made by such roll cut verneers. If there has been no such animal ever produced, I will probably seek the units in Oiled Oak to match my current setup. Since I have found out that new speakers are better than double the vintage ones, new ones are probably out, unless I can find a dealer that doesen't need to double or triple his markup. I am also gathering that the factory crossovers and internal wiring are open to scrutiny (spelling), and I may have a better chance of obtaining speakers with the desirable AA crossover upgrades. I know my wife would never let me tear into anything that costs $7000+ in hopes of improving it. I have also fallen in love with a natural oak ball and claw Olhausen pool table to match the decor. This coulpled with leather or suede overstuffed couches and plenty of Jesse Barnes prints and I think the theater would be a treat to all the senses...

Hey Guys(&Gals): I usually hang out in the HT Forum, but I think this would be the most knowledgeable audiance to pose this query. As some of you may remember, my wife and I are in the planning stages of a new home, complete w/ a 25X57 HT/game room. I'm wanting to use a Belle for the center and Khorns for the mains. I will use my Chorus I's for rear mains and my Heresy II's for the rear surround or to fill the back of the room beyond the theater portion. My question is this: The wife and I have decided on wood color for the home. We are going with Hickory. I'm wondering if Klipsch has ever offered either Belle's or Khorn's in Hickory, if they currently would offer them new, or do I need to find the speakers and have them re-veneered to match. If I go new, this will seriously hamper my budget, but I also feel more confident in the purchase over the used market. I may also consider staying with the oiled oak, as it has a decent, but not perfect match to the rest of the decor. I've found a nice pair of 85 Belle's in oiled oak, but I think $2500 is a little much and they are 2000 miles away. $500 for shipping. Any thoughts or suggestions.

I have owned Adcom w/Klipsch Chorus (mains),Academy (center), Heresy II Surround. I must say that I thought the system sounded really good. My dealer recommended ADCOM since the Klipsch needs very little power to perform well. I believed him for a long time, until I tried a 425 watt amp (Sunfire). Now I realize there was a lot I was missing. The ADCOM seemed to be very harsh in the upper bands and was missing a strong bottom end. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges now, but I must say I can't compliment ADCOM totally, I must say that the prologic unit that I have did not seem to separate the channels as well as the new unit does. Could be the age of the equipment though.

Hey Painful: I'm sorry, your right on the 3,4,5 rule. You see I really only need to know three things: 1, ShXX rolls down hill. 2, Payday is on friday. 3, Don't chew your fingernails. Thanks for the correction.

I'm no expert here, but I will be soon. I'm wearing down my wife. I have done some extensive surfing and investigating regarding false walls or the walls not resonating from the K-horns pounding on them. I hypothasize (nice word, HUH, Remembered it from college) that If a guy were to go to their local Cultured marble shop and request that they manufacture 4- 3/4 inch thick cultured Marble slabs (these babies are solid and very ridged, I doubt any resonance will result from them. Make sure they are the exact size that False Corners should be built according to The "Dope from Hope". Order them in White on White. That is the closest thing to a white wall. Bring them home and use a good grade of construction adhesive. Make sure you use the "2,3,4 formula", Don't know this formula, Just ask your neighborhood Union Journeyman carpenter to explain it he uses it everyday. This is used in creating a perfect 45 degree traingle in the corner of your room and shim behind them on the outside corners. Cover the open edges with a good sliconized caulk after they have set. This is to give a decent cosmetic appearance as the outside vertical edge will be as much as 3/8 inch away from the wall. The trick is to obtain a perfect 90 Degree angle for the Khorn to seal in. The reason your Khorns don't seal well is becaues drywall is flat in the corners. A thin coat of Drywall "mud" is applied, then drywall tape applied to that. This prevents cracking in the corners. Then depending on the taping contractor, there is at least one thicker coat of mud in the corner building up the inside of the corner of the wall giving the impression of an 85 degree angle. I like the idea of using cultured marble as it is relatively inexpensive, very ridged, and structurally sound in relatively thin panels. I have decided that when we build next year, the marble installer is going to be installing these in the corners of my HT. He'll probably flip.

Hey: I think I'm being ganged up on. I finally decide to sell my Academy and everyone says that the price has dropped. This sounds familiar, just like when I started to try to sell my Harley, by the way I still have it. Am I being played, again.

I just found this post. Man this is some neat stuff, but, I can't believe no one has mentioned setting down in front of your 5.1 HT with the ancient (circa 1985) Flim and the BB's Big Notes album. This is by far the closest thing to a test cd that is actually worth listening to. Especially the sax solo, Remember to set your Pre to Pro-logic. Those of you with 7 Channel Axis will be suprised to see the processor read this. I can't wait until I manage to find two more speakers to feel this experience. The tune "Fun House" is a little harsh, until you really listen to the incredible staging from your Klipsch system. If you haven't, treat yourself, this ones worth it. I've owned this Cd since 1990.

isn't there some test, like an Ohm Impedence test that could be performed to see if the cables that come stock with the unit were "adequete" for the power consumption of the maximum needs for the unit in question. But lets not forget, if the power from the electric company is inferior, the power cable will make no difference. Remember, your entire audio system is only as good as its weakest link.

Artto: Thanks for the input, I have been hoping that you would "pop" in at some point. I have read many of your writings about "beefing" up the corners of your "listening room" (Way Cool, I might add), and I have come to the conclusion that the fella prescribing the Marble slabs may be trying to accomplish the same goal as you, but instead of securing everything on the interior of the wall, he's applying a material to the exterior of the wall, basically forming a barrier between the speaker and the rest of the wall. Now, being the 17yr veteran investigator that I am, (Yes, I recently retired as a beat patrolman, to devote my time, full time to my exploding plumbing business. Ehh, either way, I'm hurding turds.) I believe that you are both on a inventive track and I surmize that a combination of your and the other fella's theory (give me a little time and I can locate the website for your reading pleasure) may be an ideal way to eliminate this vibration and harmonics that you describe. Think of this, If a wall is built to standards of 16" OC as you have done, with no additional reinforcements, but prior to installation of sheet rock, a 1/2" layer of blue "Celotex" insulation is added, over the studs, acting as a "vibration damper", then the sheet rock installed, as in normal construction, then Cultured marble slabs glued to the sheet rock, EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED IN THE "DOPE FROM HOPE", regarding "False Corners". I believe this could effectively insulate the outside world from our offensive "noise", but also provide a stable enviornment for the sound waves to respond to. The only issue is, does the marble need to be natural or will cultured act as an acceptable stable enviornment to reflect without deflection, or is the whole idea of marble going to distort the true impression ment to be heard. Your thoughts and the thoughts of others are welcomed and invited. Next lets debate the base deflection caused by the Belle and the screen being in the same plane as the KHorns.

Hey Guys: First of all, I guess I should have thought this one through first. I would love to sell my Academy and get a Heresy II to replace it. You all have an equal opportunity to purchase it, but here's the catch. MaMMa don't want me to spend any more money on this right now, cause I just spent $1200 on hydraulic stearing for the boat. I priced a single Heresy II in Oiled Oak at the local stereo shop. He said $680 each, not counting the bucking magnet. I would be willing to buy used, but I'm usually not lucky enough to purchase anything used that isn't either ruined or overpriced, or the old switcharoo played on me, (I know about the black market on building copies, or placing inferior drivers in an old Kiipsch cabinet. I think that may be the case for a pair of Belle's on E-bay right now. If they were that good, wouldn't they have the ID tags on them, or at least a glue mark where they used to be. If anyone has an Oiled Oak HeresyII they'd be willing to part with I'd go for that, If I could hear it first, otherwise, I need that 3yr 36,XXX mile warranty that the dealer offers. Or maybe someone has a in-line with a dealer that would be willing to ship me a speaker NIB at your discount rate. If the latter, lets talk, cause mamma may spring for Khorns and Belles later down the road, as we are designing a new home w/ a 25'X57" HT in the basement.

Hey EVERYBODY: Just wanted to bring this back to the top. Please read and respond to the previous issues. There's a lot to be learned from each other and I'm new hear.... Maybe que in others that have an opinion if you don't. Thanks, The Plummer.

CAs: I saw your stands earlier today. They look great. I have been using a stand for 4 years now that is only 12 inches around on both ends with 2x4's criss/crossed in an "X" pattern holding up a Heresy II. Is's very stable also. Maybe a small manufacturing plant is in order, offering different types of wood to accent the speakers is in order. You think I'm kidding, talk to your tax accountant.

damonpayne: Save yourself the headache of trying to outbid a computer and make me an offer on my flawless Oiled Oak Academy. I'd really like a HERESY II with a bucking magnet. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Qman I can't really speak about what you consider "noisy". I must say that with the RCA jacks from the preamp to the amp, I did detect some noise, but no where near the amount of noise my old ADCOM gear exibited. The amazing thing is when I used cheap Radio Shack XLR cables, the noise vanished. This amp brought my Chorus I's and Heresy II's to life. Though I do notice that the Academy is now not able to keep up. I doubt that the Sunfire amp is as quiet as an Aarogon or Mark Levinson amp, but thats apples and oranges. I am mainly so impressed with this unit as I stole this one, it listed for over $7500, got it for $3500. Anytime deals like that pop up I can't say no.

Anyone know anything about the Toshiba TDP-MT8U HDDLP Projector. I saw a factory re-conditioned unit on Overstock.com List price $9,999.00, listed for 3,589.00. Is this a true HD unit or one that falls into that "Grey Area of High Def." Also is 1000lumins bright. I have heard of projectors as high as 1600 lumins. Any thoughts.

Whow, whow, whow: I did not mean to ruffle any feathers here. I'm new here and did not mean for any anamosity by my last post. I mearly wanted to add that there are many quality products out there and wish that all would have an open mind about all products. Seems like all I read about is Yamaha and Dennon. I am not trying to push one brand over another, but I must confess that I have had several occaisions to call Sunfire and have been met with customer service that I am totally unfamiliar with. These people have sent me new light bulbs for hte amp, without question, or without demanding that I send in the unit for repair, answered many questions, and (as of yesterday) they are sending me a new computer chip, no charge, to upgrade my current theater grand. Sorry I did not elaborate up front, but I have owned Yamaha products w/o any, I mean ANY customar service.

Hey Gilbert: I've learned that there is such few manufacturers that utilize the XLR connectore in the home market(much less use it correctly), I'm interested in knowing what equipment you are using, as your system profile is nonexistant.

Audible Nectar: I have recently had another revelation. Instead of building an offset wall on the projector screen wall, what if I held the K-horns out the exact depth of the Belle and built a false wall on the inside side of the speaker (the side nearest to the projector screen. This would allow the room to be actual size, hide the screen (sonically of course, as well as the center channel). This would also allow room for the electronics to be mounted on racks to the left and right of the projector screen, much advantageous to using the remotes and also keeps the speaker cable runs closer to the same length (something car audio freaks tweek about). This would also defeat any projector screen deflections that may inherently occurr, correct? Also I have not heard back on wether to use cultured marble behind the K-horns as a Base deflector. I Hypothisize that the more rigid the structure, the less likely bass deflection is to occurr. Also, to change the subject, the HT diminsions would be 25'wide, 57'long, and (I forgot to mention) 9' high. What is the board's concensus. Let's hear it form all. I learn best by hearing from everyone, taking what makes sense from all and discarding the rest.

Avman: No disrespect ment by this, but I'm willing to wager that Your description of the Yammi being the King of the HT may be seriously underestimated. I make this strong statement as I have managed to obtain a Sunfire Theater Grand II and Signature Cinema Grand Amp (425 watts continuous). Based on the sevin axis capability of this primitive setup, I am sure that the updated version (Theater Grand IV + Signature Cinema Grand 9) would inniahalate (spelling) the yammi. Food for thought.

Audible Nectar: Thanks for your help and I am now in the design stages of our new home. My first thoughts were to have the HT in the family room on the main floor. This would be cool, but I would not be able to have complete design control over it. The wife also threw a fit when I told her I wanted a pool table in the dining room, since she told me she did not want a dining room. I think she has learned not to tell me she doesn't care for something, cause I'm gonna fill it. On to the new plan. The house plan calls for two basements. The lower basement is 57'wide and 25' deep, from the back. This will be used as garage/storage w/four garage doors across the back of the house. The second basement will be the same footprint as the main floor. The interesting thing is both basements will be totally free span areas over each other. A bar joist will run the length of the 57' and TJI Joists will be used hung on joist hangers as to keep the steel Joist up in the subfloor. My intentions are to utilize the entire 25'X57' as a home theater/ game room. Imagine, as you step douwn the basement stairs, you are at the left side of the 57' wide basement. There will be a bathroom on the same plane as the staircase to allow the room to be a perfect rectangle. There will be a pool table in the middle of the room on the left side of the basement. As you pan right, you will observe three large windows, mimiking an atrium style home. On each side of the large windows will be a double french door, leading to a deck running the entire width of the basement. On the same side of the basement as the bathroom and staircase, there will be a built in wet bar, in an alcove, so as not to disturb the rectangular nature of the room. As you continue to look to the left, you will see the projector on the far left wall (the 25' side). I have decided to budget for at least two K-horns and One Belle. I think this will be a fantastic front soundstage. I recently received a quote from a local dealer. $3000 for a Belle and $3700 Ea. for the K-Horns. I would then use my Chorus I's for side channels and the Heresy's for rear surrounds. Hoping to replace them with Belle's and K=Horns at a later date. On to the front stage, I am leaning toward building a false wall on the projector side, as to allow the Belle to sit inside an alcove so as not to disturb the base reflections coming from the K-Horns. I will have to use my current Sunfire Theater Grand II and signature Cinimal Grand Amp for now. I also read on another site recently where the author recomended mounting slabs of marble on the walls in the corners behind where the k-horns would sit. He said that 2 cm thick would be sufficient. I wonder if it matters using natural marble or if Cultured marble would be acceptable. Cultured marble is made of Crushed limestone and fiberglass resin. Much cheaper, and very much so available to me. The one thing is that the author did not specify as to the size of the marble slabs, only refering to the "Dope From Hope" about building false corners, of which I cannot find anywhere. Getting tired of typing now, must rest. please respond with comments. Am I on the right track or am i about to make a huge mistake. thanks.

Atree; If it were me again, I would take a serious look at Sunfire. I, know, too pricy. Believe me, I used to think the same way. But, take it from me I recently purchased a Sunfire Theater Grand and Cinima Signature Grand (seperates Pre-amp and Amp), I am currently extremely pleased with the "Bang for the buck" factor. Rember, "Quality remains long after price is forgotten." Take a look at a couple the topic relating to using XLR cables instead of RCA Jacks. I'm sure the Sunfire Receivers are just as incredible as the separates. Good luck.

Hey Popbumper: Since no one has made the offer, I have a pristine Academy, and I would be willing to part with it, for say,,,,,,,,a Heresy II or two. The Plummer.