RRRush Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I read in a past post here that Sunfire Amps can cause buzzing on Klipsch tweeters. True? I think I'm going B&K but now I'm curios about the Sunfire Buzz? Whats Up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 It can be other things that cause the buzz. In my case it was the arangement of my interconnects, splitters and how I had some accessory equipment hooked up. The more links in the chain the harder noise is to control. I have 10 channels and I thought my McIntosh amps were causing my tweeter buzz, but they wern't the source of the problem. It can be many things, do some experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btutrucking Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I run a Sunfire Cinema grand with my KLF's and have never had a problem (knock on wood). I have the amp connected through the balanced inputs and it performs much better than my Adcom 5500, that I had hooked up previously. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Thanks. I have only read one account of this, but before I shell out any coin for an amp I figured I would double check with you guys. Seems most are going B&K and I can get that locally. Sunfire I can't listen too locally, but I can get a decent deal. Its the mystique of Sunfire that has me curious? One account of buzzing is just that, curious if there are any more. I have not read anything else negative of the Sunfire Grand Cinema II. Is Sunfire all that or does it not hold up to B&K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I have a sunfire 600 two and I have no buzz{except in my head after a 5 minute session} My sunfire replaced two adcom 555-2`s brideged for 600 each, and they had a buzz in tweeters on my old k-hors and my first set of chorus2`s, the sunfire is a very warm sounding power house, Highly rcomended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Each amp will produce more or less audible noise...or buzz as you call it if you place your hear near the tweeter.Tube amps much more than solid state. There is no perfect dead quiet amp,unless you live in a dream world. Sunfire power amps are very quiet(read buzz free) and smooth sounding making them a great match for Klipsch and other horn speakers...plus you get massive power reserves. Sunfire amp + Klipsch speakers = Musical joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 What do you think of their THD of .5%, will I notice that with the RF7's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I should stop reading these boards!!! It seems that I persoanlly have to try out too darn many of these topics, no matter the cost! The Sunfire does have a very slight hum from all of the tweeters. My ear has to be 6 inches from the tweeter to hear it, but it is there when no program material is playing from the system. The two channels still on my Pioneer remain dead quiet. The hum is totally inaudible more than 6 inches from the speakers and is totally inaudible at any distance when program material is playing. The other side of the "coin" is that bass has improved substantially as has detail in general. The folks that claim that RF-7s open up when you hit 200 watts are clearly correct. My B&K had 140 watts and could not produce the same level of bass or detail. What led me in the direction of the Sunfire is that fact that it runs cool enough not to need a fan in my equipment hutch. (My opinion above recommends B&K on the basis that I had a favorable B&K experience.) I was worried about the .5% THD spec, but apparently independent tests put it under .1%. Bob Carver states THD that high to give himself a margin of legal safety apparently. My favorite feature on the Sunfire is that it senses a signal and automatically turns on without a 12 volt trigger cable. Thanks to theEar for his recommendation on the Sunfire in another thread I picked up on a search of the Klipsch forum. Thanks also are due the other Sunfire users that reported their favorable experiences. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ---------------- On 6/10/2004 10:24:00 AM radiob wrote: I have a sunfire 600 two and I have no buzz{except in my head after a 5 minute session} My sunfire replaced two adcom 555-2`s brideged for 600 each, and they had a buzz in tweeters on my old k-hors and my first set of chorus2`s, the sunfire is a very warm sounding power house, Highly rcomended. ---------------- I also have the Sunfire 600 two and no buzz at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 My new Sunfire is 225 watts x5. The hum is so small that I cannot measure it over the air conditioning noise with my Rat Shack sound meter. arthurs: The Sunfire 600x2 must make those B&Ws really sing. I bet they can use all of that power to advantage! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Bill, I am extremely happy with the pairing overall....modestly, I will tell you there are some listening moments I cannot adequately describe with words....I love this hobby...posted some pics in the Show Your Home Theater thread below this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 MrMcGoo: You have the CGII, when did you get it? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 It was your inquiry that got me wondereing. After furhter research on the web, I bought it yesterday from Huppin's, a local retailer. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 McGoo, Any idea on what the current draw is on that Amp? I take it you picked it up for Huppins in WA, what do you think of them? TIA. McGoo(different thread): "My information on digital amps leads me to believe that Sunfire is too expensive, and its dual outputs are merely a way of coloring the sound." Wow your opinion changed quick huh. hehe. J/K. Enjoy the Sunfire. I'd be interested now that you've had some seat time what your overall opinion is.... I may sway that way too, although B&K is still drawing me like a bug to the zapper. How dramatically different is the sound between the Sunfire and B&K in brightness/Warmth? Are you using the Voltage and Current outputs to bi-wire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Rush, The current draw at 1/8th power is 200 watts per Bob Carver. That much power will blow you out of the room. The comment about coloring the sound was caused by the current source outputs which use a one ohm resistor in series. Subsequent research on the Sunfire's voltage output source (the uncolored source) has the slew rate at 14 v/us which is exactly the same as B&K' slew rate. Such a slew rate helps produce a tube like sound. The Sunfire's sound is similar to the B&K 2140, but has a lot more power for bass etc. The comment on the full retail price is still my opinion. Another amp to look at on the OneCall.com web site in addition to the Sunfire is the ATI 2505 for about $1,500. It is a 250 watt, 5 channel monster. You could easily injure your back lifting it. theEar has one on his Reference 7 speakers and seems to love its performance. The only reason that I did not go for the ATI 2505 is that it is too heavy for my equipment cabinet and runs a bit hot. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 MrMcGoo, I was just kidding with you about opinions, hope the Sunfire works out. From what I've read it should. Keep us posted on what you think. I'm still undecided. Did you hear the buzz/noise with the B&K hooked up? I know you said the Pioneer outputs were quiet. Reason I ask is curiosity to what causes it. I had an Onkyo initially hooked to my RF7's and they had a similar buzz/noise/static sound like you said up to 6" away. Then I hooked a Yamaha to it which sounded outstanding and no buzz/noise/static. I finally ended up with the Denon 3802 pushing them as was very happy. I stuck with Denon because of features and it was a little warmer than the Yamaha. The Yamaha did sound outstanding though. The only thing I noticed between the receivers is that the Denon had the highest S/N ratio, then Yamaha, the Onkyo was lower. Wonder why the amp shows the same characteristics although the S/N is 115db on the Sunfire. THD(no signal though when its quiet, unless its amplifying noise). There must be some other contributing factor. I'm misunderstanding something. :o/ Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Rush, I really like the Sunfire Cinema Grand II. I would highly recommend it to anyone with Klipsch speakers that wants to use a solid state amp that has a warm sound. Do not be put off by the .5% THD figure. It seems to be a marketing thing that is a subtle attempt to claim a tube-like sound. The actual THD is <.1% in independent tests. The improvement in the RF-7s bass output with the Sunfire is amazing to me. There is more output and it is tighter or more defined. The Sunfire brings out delicate details in the sound that both the B&K and Pioneer amps lost. The Sunfire shows excellent dynamics, is smooth and warm. It is a bit more musical than the 130 watt Pioneer and the 140 watt B&K. I attribute the improved dynamics and bass response to not only the Sunfire's power, but also its ability to drive low impedances. The RF-7s drop to 3 ohms at 76 Hz. This is a difficult load for many amps, but the Sunfire seems to live up to its specs of doubleing the output as the impedance is cut in half. My Sunfire Cinema Grand II has a signal to noise ratio >-100 db per the owner's manual, not 115 db as in the information on the OneCall site. Sunfire has made many changes to their gear over time. For example, the weight on my unit is 43 pounds, not 32 pounds. Interestingly, the Sunfire had a shipping date of March 2002 to Huppins. I wonder if this had any effect on the large discount they gave me. The B&K Reference amps have a signal to noise ratio of 95 db. Many things affect the specifications such as negative feedback. B&K claims to use very little negative feedback. B&K also is in class A operation for the first several watts before it goes into class AB operation. The hiss is so small on my Sunfire that I do not notice it unless I try to bring it out. The B&K ST2140 had hiss in one channel. Why there is the inaudible hiss IMO is usually a function of the engineering effort that went into its elimination. My Pioneer receiver is a former flagship (VSX-49TXi). Pioneer made a huge effort to quiet all noise from the digital processors and the power supply. The EI type power supply is in its own shielded compartment. Pioneer uses a thick copper chasis. Microprocessors have their own individual shields. One very knowledgeable member on another forum refused to believe a receiver can be dead quiet, but it can. Sorry to go on so long, but I am happy with my decision to give the Sunfire a try. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 MrMcGoo, More info the better. Cool the Sunfire is working out so well. Have you tried the Current outputs yet? Whats your opinion of Huppins/Onecall? Did you get the 19" or 17" version? I've been back and forth, I've had the hardest time getting contacts for Aragon. At the corporate level they have been great, its the local contractors. Go figure. If I worked for Aragon I'd be pissed that contractor aren't willing to move products faster. Their(Aragon) specs are also based on 3 channels driven from a 5 channel amp(2005). What good are specs for 3 channels driven if I'm buying a 5 channel amp. :op The B&K I've listened to and like a lot, plus I can acquire locally. Sunfire allures me based on the concepts and the TrackDown Converter, Dual Outputs, etc.... Any idea how many Amps the Sunfire is pulling from the socket during normal use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Rush, My Sunfire amp is 19 inches wide. I had to take a glass door off of my equipment cabinet to get it in. I have not used the current outputs and have no plans to do so. Instead of the front three speaker having the current output, this amp only has current outputs for the mains. My opinion of Huppins is generally very good. I have purchsed half of my gear there. They claim to be the biggest single store distributor of home electronics in the US. They have huge warehouses. It usually happens that what I want is in one of the warehouses and I have to wait for them to get it to the store. When someone on the Internet complains, they work harder to fix the problem. If the price is right and you do your homework, I would not hesitate to deal with them. Bill PS: Do take a look at the ATI 2505 at OneCall. It is the best "deal" that I know of for a 5 channel amp with huge power output. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRRush Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 MrMcGoo, Yeah I was taking a peak at it, but requires a 20amp outlet. I did not run a 20amp line for that area. I almost did but well, what can I do. It would be a major hastle to do it now that the rock is up. I thought the CG II was supposed to have current outputs for the first three LCR. Hmmmm. Well if you never plan on using it - won't matter. Their(onecall) 17" Sunfire version is not really all that of a deal, the 19" deal they had going was pretty sweet. I'm going to give Aragon one more chance tomorrow, then decide between them and B&K. Enjoy. Oh yeah, did you ever notice what the current draw was at the outlet during normal use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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