tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 5:42:20 PM Anarchist wrote: No Paul. This, in conjunction with other comments you made, is trolling. "I've heard Bruce's speakers and was distinctly unimpressed. Do you work on a commission for him?" Want more examples? The forum is littered with them. ---------------- Brilliant, thank you for the analysis. The same could be made of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Tom - You can't post a picture with a space in the filename. Browser won't find it. Try reposting without the space? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 Anarchist, Try going through this thread and count the number of times Tom brings up Edgar. Also bear in mind that he has frequently brought up Edgar in the past. Also note that Tom did not deny getting a commission; although I seriously doubt if there is any financial interest, I made the commission remark just to point out that Tom is so gung-ho on Edgar that it *sounds as if* he is a salesman for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 1:06:38 PM Colin wrote: If one means to be actually informative and useful to this forum, one should detail their experience seriously auditioning, in their own home, with the same music and equipment, any front-end equipment or loudspeaker. To omit such experience is to puff up your opinion and authority. Edgar horns look like they make a good kit, make used classic Klipsch corner Khorns seem like a great bargain, the wood horn idea seems like it might be a natural material for the mid-range, thought I bet I would prefer metal for the high frequencies, since all high frequencies created by acoustic instruments are metal- If I was Paul W. Klipsch, founder of Klipsch and designer of the classic corner Khorn I would certainly feel competitive with Dr. Bruce, more so in fact than Dr. Bose I briefly heard a few money-is-no-object dream systems that rival Arytypes JBL/Alk Khorns, I have also zipped through Bostons windy streets in a red Ferrari roller-skate, which I admit was nicer, but also 21 times more expensive than my 63 MG. Still as each system approaches audio nirvana, and loose anomalies that weaken the sound, the more they sound the same! So that means that are NOT a lot of ways to approach audio nirvana. As you correct the faults of each system, they end up looking more and more like each other! Look at the solid-state powered cone subwoofers with Avant-garde Audios large trio bright horns and Martin-Logans tall, see-through electrostatics. They both end up using similar technology to get the results they want. I believe the low WAF with most used big ole horns (NOT classic Klipsch corner Khorns) keeps them cheap to the market in price, inviting tweaking audiophiles to scoop them up, modify them and race them on weekends. A used loudspeaker store or re-coning store will be glad to make a few mods to Khorns for a little too much money, but it can be done- The Bose Jewel cubes are good loudspeakers for their size, if NOT a bit overpriced, but then they have the Lexus reputation dont they- More loudspeakers should be built for the corners, not just our beloved Khorns. More loudspeakers should be built for actual use on entertainment centers, NOT just anechoic rooms- Jim, I thought: 828 cabs $540 515Bs 250 1005s 500 288s these are? 811/902s 400 ALK? 550 sum $2240 resale of unknown loudspeaker: $1120 Parrotten, I thought your system was too nice for you to be so provocative- I learn far more from the knowledgeable posters here than any puff-piece filled with $10 words Why own classic Klipsch corner Khorns? Because you can listen to them for decades, get most of what dream systems offer and sell them for more than you paid! Guys, what you ragging on Tom for? Everybody knows that a Jag is a better car with a Chevy block dropped in! Thats all he is saying. I always thought Brennenitis, was buy JBL lens and modify their big ole horns and live for this stupid nonsense- ---------------- Yawn.....................................................................better than a glass of warm milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 tubelover, You keep up the good work. The contributions you make to this forum have managed to make me much more tolerant of Paul when he is seeking to stir up the pot. Fortunately, I have always had the capability to completely disregard someone I found absolutely no use for without allowing them to affect my emotional state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Oris horns are nice looking too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Paul, I understood exactly the point you were making and I know you enjoy stirring up $hit to see the reaction you get. Off this site, I frequently do the same thing; it does not translate well on the internet however. Your statement served to disparage Tom and called into question his integrity; some people might not find the humor in that. No need to make a big deal of it. Just don't get all 'holier than thou' when someone turns the tables. If you provoke people and they respond in kind, don't be a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 5:51:34 PM Anarchist wrote: tubelover, You keep up the good work. The contributions you make to this forum have managed to make me much more tolerant of Paul when he is seeking to stir up the pot. Fortunately, I have always had the capability to completely disregard someone I found absolutely no use for without allowing them to affect my emotional state. ---------------- Kudos to your therapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 What does Dr. Bruce Edgar have his doctorate in?? I assume he's not an MD!!??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Parrot on one side hounding me and Tubelover on the other. I feel like a rose between thorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 cwm---Edgar was, literally, a rocket scientist. But not a brain surgeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 The Clancy Brothers sound best playing through Klipschorns too. Time to pop on "Brennan on the Moor." Now Brennan being an outlaw upon the mountain high With cavalry and infantry to take him they did try He laughed at them with scorn until at last 'twas said By a falsehearted woman he was cruelly betrayed. And it's Brennan On The Moor, Brennan On The Moor Bold, brave and undaunted was young Brennan On The Moor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Here's and interesting interview of Bruce Edgar in 1996. Small world, come to find out my neighbor (failure analysis engineer) worked with him at Aerospace Corporation by LAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 6:58:11 PM cwm wrote: What does Dr. Bruce Edgar have his doctorate in?? I assume he's not an MD!!??!! ---------------- Phd in Electrical Engineering from Stanford. Post Doc in Atmospheric Physics at the University of Florida. He like Paul W. Klipsch, was certainly no dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 The interviewer, Dave, says "The Klipschorn was designed for the days of mono, and it simply doesn't image." The "doesn't image" part is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 7:01:50 PM TBrennan wrote: Parrot on one side hounding me and Tubelover on the other. I feel like a rose between thorns. ---------------- Given your sacrcastic demeanor it should be safe for us to assume that you are rather comfortable in this position. Should it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I read the same bit. It would apply to all Klipsch designs based on his explanation of the problem, correct? How could so many here be wrong when they claim the imaging is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Gosh, this is getting close to a flame war. Guys, please calm down. There is a good amount of opinion and argument in "Audio". Even if it not express overtly as such, we must know it. For example, six or seven decades of audio magazines are filled with insights, argument, opinion, reflections, some hard core numbers . . . all of which add up to entertaining and contradictory debate. Many people involved have superb credentials, experence, and good hearts. Unfortunately this thread is getting to sound like the old Ford versus Chevy versus Mopar wars on the playgrounds of junior high schools. Let me add observations and comments. I first met Tom Brennan at a fest where Bruce Edgar was the leading speaker. Bruce brought along some of his products and gave an impressive demo. For some of the rest of the fest Bruce held court in the hall and I was happy to listen to him. That is not to say I agree with all beliefs held by Bruce. He believes wire is "directional". I just can't buy it. However, I think such things are no indication of his personal character. Also, Bruce was the first guy who passed along many of his investigations into horns in SpeakerBuilder. He was a fan of Mr. Voight who was very much a pioneer and patented the tractrix design. We find Voight horns in the Klipsch museum. I conclude that there is a mutual respect all round for horn designs. Many inventors favor their own brain children. But that is not the same as tearing down everyone else. PWK credits the K-400 as being based on a Jensen design. Don Keele gives a nod to PWK's K-5 in constant directivity. The point is that most horn designers are giving credit to what goes before. No one of them is claiming perfection. I met Tom Brennan several times since. He is very experienced and knowledgeable in horns and lots of other things. Very much an intelligent gentleman. I'd have to agree with him that there are plenty of horn designs out there of great merit. Returning to the original subject, let none of us take all of this "Audio" so seriously that we can't be good natured about it. Gil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 5:23:09 PM tubelover wrote: I find it doubtful that you own K-horns. ---------------- Parrot, The best capsulization of your post is "IDOTSPEAK". Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 12:52:24 PM IndyKlipschFan wrote: I looked at it at the time like this. Take your dream supercar say a Ferrari... your whole life you wanted a stock supercar like this just as it is. You get it home, are extatic with the way it feels, sounds, and performs. Your "car gearhead neighbor" comes over without you even asking and says not bad..... but you need to do this and that and this and that and that should really help your sub par car. ---------------- Indy, Lo and behold, something almost as you describe actually happened, and the Lamborghini was born. The moral of the story: Even if it causes your bubble to burst, listen anyway, they may "not be" correct, but they also may "be" correct. Lamborghini was. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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