TheEAR Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 ---------------- On 8/31/2004 2:23:40 PM yromj wrote: I posted that to try to point out that you can't simply drop a sub in each corner of the room and turn them on and have unbelievable bass. I always assumed that your room was not done this way. Have you ever run an RTA on your room? John ---------------- And no I never used an RTA in either room,all done with a SPL meter/test tones and the world famous ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 ---------------- On 8/31/2004 2:36:17 PM sfogg wrote: "yes if you are a newbie and do not know what the PHASE on each sub serves. " Only works if all the subs are located very closly together, which has other negatives relating to the perception of bass. Otherwise you are adjusting the relative phase between the subs to specific listening positions. If you move the listening position to another location you change the distance between the listener and the subs. That changes the phase between them as well. If they aren't all located together how do you time align that many subwoofers (which ends up also effecting phase) to your main listening position? Do all the subs have limiters on them? Since you have such a hodge podge of models (with varying output capabilities) if some of the subs get driven to distortion earlier then others that will be mucking up your resulting sound quality as distortion in the bass range is very audible. If each sub has a good limiter on it to keep each and every one from being driven to distort that might not be much of an issue though. Shawn ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 ---------------- On 8/31/2004 2:36:17 PM sfogg wrote: "yes if you are a newbie and do not know what the PHASE on each sub serves. " Only works if all the subs are located very closly together, which has other negatives relating to the perception of bass. Otherwise you are adjusting the relative phase between the subs to specific listening positions. If you move the listening position to another location you change the distance between the listener and the subs. That changes the phase between them as well. If they aren't all located together how do you time align that many subwoofers (which ends up also effecting phase) to your main listening position? Do all the subs have limiters on them? Since you have such a hodge podge of models (with varying output capabilities) if some of the subs get driven to distortion earlier then others that will be mucking up your resulting sound quality as distortion in the bass range is very audible. If each sub has a good limiter on it to keep each and every one from being driven to distort that might not be much of an issue though. Shawn ---------------- Well the subs are grouped(stacked in some cases)and when sitting in opposing corners they always side the mains or are used alongside the wall I face.Bass emanates from the fron of the room,not placed all around(as this would be a total pain in the posterior). Yes its obvious a Super Junior cannot keep up with a Signature or a RSW15...be back later...at work ...a I was saying ...each sub is set to what ever level it can reproduce,the Super Junior working around 20% fof full power and the much larger sub working at 20%,I try to match the so when the Junior reaches its limits the largest sub will too.No simplistic level matching as this would only be viable if all the subs were the same. Know to set each room well it took me a few solid days of work and repositioning,I used the compact the Carver KS to find the best spots.Positioned the sub at the same height my head would be when sitting and i walked/crawled like a rat around the rooms and placed masking tape where the output was plenty and bass quality was best.Fortune has it most of the front wall was great and the front corners . Placing subs all about the room is a sure recepie for bass disaster. Ha some life back in the good ole subwoofer forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I posted that to try to point out that you can't simply drop a sub in each corner of the room and turn them on and have unbelievable bass. I always assumed that your room was not done this way. Have you ever run an RTA on your room? ----------------------------------------------------------------- I knew you couldn't just whip subs into corners and get bass, you have to use a spl meter and test tones. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I figured some/most of the "regulars" knew that, but some readers may not. I would be curious to see an RTA of the room though. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 EAR How can you say you have too many Subs when you dont even have the new KW120 and matching KA1000 amp? Shame on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Before I get the new Klipsch THX subs I will have a few SVS subs.Not before,SVS TV12 equiped subs are far more interesting to me than a redone RSW12 with a slot port and beefier woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 ",I try to match the so when the Junior reaches its limits the largest sub will too.No simplistic level matching as this would only be viable if all the subs were the same." So then if you do that the lower capability subs basically aren't doing anything at lower listening levels since you would have them turned down so much more to have them avoid maxing out early. And when you crank them up they still aren't contributing all that much since they don't have the output capabilities of some of the other subs. "And no I never used an RTA in either room,all done with a SPL meter/test tones" Try something like a function generator such as: http://www.marchandelec.com/fg.html set it to sine waves and do a sweep from 20hz to 100hz moving up 1 hz at a time and recording the level with your meter. Then chart that out. If all is well you should see a smooth curve from the 'C' weighting in that meter. Any sort of charting bass response with an SPL meter has a big flaw in it though, the meter is only giving SPL not the frequency it is occuring at. If a sub is distorting this doesn't show up in this sort of test, as the SPL meter just gives the level of all sound in the room. The actual SPL level of the fundamental is lower if one wasn't including the distortion products. That is why an RTA (or MLS or FFT) is a much better measurement as it will break what it hears down by bands or frequency. If you want an inexpensive 1/24 octave RTA check out Trueaudio's software: http://trueaudio.com/ It is one of the things I use and it works well. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I'm going to try to find some time in the next few days to play w/ their free version trueRTA. It's only 1 octave resolution, but it ought to be fun nonetheless. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Ear, over in the VMPS Forum, I found someone I would like you to meet. Here is his post: Joined: 27 Dec 2002 Posts: 1309 Location: Los Angeles, CA Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:49 pm The Guy who cried WOOF!!! a VMPS Record -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Subwoofer Challenge Well the madness has begun. Not long ago I posted that I envisioned 3 pair of LARGER SUBS "stacked" atop each other (3 on a side) for my system. Well the first 3 subs are here, and the fourth will arrive in a few days. At this very moment, I only have the two new LARGERS hooked up and breaking in a bit. At this point it is basically to the level of what I was looking for, but I "WILL" go with the 4 to break the record for "most LARGERs in one room at one time, in a musical 2 channel system". If I feel it nessessary, (I would need challengers) I will then put the VMPS Woofer record into the Clouds (see my AVATAR to the left) by going with the last two (6 LARGERS in all) If anyone cares to try and break the record let me know, I could be talked into even more. I have alread planned to place the 4th pair to "flank" the bottom pair. In recreating the size, power, impact, and weight of a "LIVE" performance the hardest thing is to produce and move the air in the lower registers. Even the two LARGERS shows me this. Four will be even better and Six will approach the grandiosity of most any Concert Hall or Symphonic Shell in the world. And let it not be "misunderstood" my goal is "musicality", not BAAAABOOOM! And I might add that I certainly know of "single box" high x-mass Subs that come to the table with plenty of "FirePower" for similar cash. FFFFFFtttttt! you can hav'em. Anyone who has ever heard the Woofer Towers of Arnie's old IRS system knows that bringing the drivers up to ear level adds a whole new dimension to woo***e So as I stack these the drivers to approach ear level, the sound and music should be incredible. Challengers are Welcome Woof! Woof! _________________ John Casler VMPS LA CA USA/SUMMIT Audio Video 310-446-0138 800-320-6884 (order desk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 sfogg, Thanks for the links I will check them up shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 radiob, Looks like a nice challenge,but I am not into max SPL.If Iwas I would have stacked revel B15's aand stacked SVS Ultra subs and voila SHAKE THE GALAXY subsinics. With my "modest" subs I can with total ease best 120dB at 25Hz at sitting position in either room and peg the rat Shack dB meter at 31.5Hz and with headroom left for more ear tearing. Most of the time I listen at moderate to mid levels,its rare I push either system.If I want to the pressure pounds the air in my lungs.I like to try this sub and that sub and then buy those I find interesting designs. If any would be neighbor tries to play his "boombox" too loud then I can always drive the pedal to the metal and send them crawling.But it is not my goal or again I could buy with ease horn loaded Pro gear with power to crush hearing and tear walls.Not my bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 John, " It's only 1 octave resolution, but it ought to be fun nonetheless." 1 octave is nearly useless, and is totally useless in the bass range. If you have a 80hz crossover for example that means from 20 to 80hz is only going to be displayed on two bands. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Better keep your doors locked so no one decides to put them in their trunk, to try and impress their freinds. BOOM SIZZLE, SIZZLE,BOOM, YO, WAT UP BRUDDA> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Shawn, Yea I knew it would be, but it's the free version. I can't do too much to the room anyway, as it's our living room and it's very oddly shaped and open. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 ---------------- On 9/1/2004 7:51:56 PM radiob wrote: Better keep your doors locked so no one decides to put them in their trunk, to try and impress their freinds. BOOM SIZZLE, SIZZLE,BOOM, YO, WAT UP BRUDDA> ---------------- Doors are locked allright,and building is safe...plus we have a proper security system.And a few surprises await the low life(s) who would try to take what is mine. Too many people at all time I know here for the biggots to get away...he he That is one reason I do not post pics ...only a few and far apart.The clowns cannot map my subsonic bunker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Not that Im doubting the Ear owning all the subs he says he owns... but I, too, would like to see a pic of the place. I dont understand why he cant take a picture of his HT room... it soo easy.. just one-click... and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 ---------------- On 9/1/2004 9:10:56 PM TheEAR wrote: ---------------- On 9/1/2004 7:51:56 PM radiob wrote: Better keep your doors locked so no one decides to put them in their trunk, to try and impress their freinds. BOOM SIZZLE, SIZZLE,BOOM, YO, WAT UP BRUDDA> ---------------- Doors are locked allright,and building is safe...plus we have a proper security system.And a few surprises await the low life(s) who would try to take what is mine. Too many people at all time I know here for the biggots to get away...he he That is one reason I do not post pics ...only a few and far apart.The clowns cannot map my subsonic bunker ---------------- LOL, I dont blame you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 ---------------- On 9/1/2004 9:10:56 PM TheEAR wrote: The clowns cannot map my subsonic bunker ---------------- Infrasonic It's pretty much assumed that your bunker is moving slower than the speed of sound. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underhanded Penguin Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 TheEar go take a look or listen to the Dynaudio Suvs!!!! Come on Sub 300 and Sub 500!!! -UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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