THX-DTS-DD-PLII help

[colterphoto1]

Okay gang,

I've got a new Yamaha RXV2400 with all bells and whistles, maybe too many. Of course the manual is of some help but doesn't really go into great detail about the various surround modes, hookup, and speaker layout. My Cd player is a modest Sony unit which boasts THX, DTS, and DD on the front panel, It's hooked up via two RCA lines

News-style, here's what I DO know (kindly correct where necessary):

THX is a licensing thingee, an eq curve and equipment specs, not a surround mode.

Dolby Digital (5.1) is 5 discrete channels plus a sub line out, one up from Pro-logic which was matrixed and both rear channels were the same feed.

DTS is another companies 5.1(?) discrete mixdown system.

Here's what I DON"T know, sorry so many questions:

Whereas my receivers info tells me that it will pick the best HT surround mode for the input source, I think it only finds the 'flags' or markers for ES/EX. Are these two different mixes for DTS soundtracks for 6.1 or 7.1?

I have something called PLII (movie,music, game) but no switching for Pro-Logic at all. What is PLII? How does it differ from DD?

If I put on a DTS DVD and switch to DTS, I get no output at all. Do I need to use optical lines or 6xRCA's for this? How do I know EX/ES or just leave that on auto? Can I use DTS with only 5.1 channels of speakers hooked up?

How does DTS differ from PLII? I keep switching round and can barely hear any difference, except the 'music' modes for each seem to have more LR and less center info.

The switches are setup as follows. One button each for THX, DTS/PLII (various modes for each), 'Movie' (presumably Yamaha's proprietary expansions for mono movies?) and one button for EX/ES/Auto (which works with the DTS/PLII button)

I thought I knew a lot about this stuff, but I'm getting really confused. It all sounds better than Pro-Logic but I can't tell any difference between most of these 8-12 modes. HELP! Hopefully this will help others in the same quandry.

Can't wait for the day I have to hang a Cornwall overhead!

Michael

[michael hurd]

Correct for the first 3.

Dolby digital is a the recognized format in the industry for dvd. It may feature 2 tracks with no subwoofer, for older movies, 5.1 ( five discrete channels + subwoofer ), or dolby digital ex, with the addition of a rear center channel. 7.1 is utlizing two rear centers in mono, for a larger / wider room.

DTS is a higher bitrate encoding process that has more dynamic range than dolby digital encoding. DTS es adds a discrete or matirixed rear center channel. If a dts es disc has a matrixed rear center channel, it is mixed into the left and right surround, if played on a decoder ( receiver ) that is only dts 5.1 capable. However, when played on a 6.1 es capable receiver, the information is sent to the rear center and subtracted from the left and right surround channels.

Dolby prologic II is a process where 2 channel source material is matrixed into 5 full bandwith channels. It uses directional cues in music to decide which channels get what information. For example, if a character on screen walks left to right, the sound will move from the left side main and surround, through the center and then to the right main and surround. The different presets for prologic II, help it decide what has more priority. I would imagine on the game setting, the center channel would have the most information.

[michael hurd]

By DTS cd, do you mean dvd? You have to use either an optical or coaxial digital output from the dvd player. On some dvd players, you might have to manually set the player up to output a DTS bitstream. You also have to select DTS or auto on the receiver.

DTS differs from prologic II in the fact that dts is discrete channels, with a much higher bandwith and dynamic range. Pro logic II basically makes the most out of a 2 channel source, sending a full bandwith ( surrounds and center ) signal to all the speakers.

Hope this helps!

[dcelov]

They do have DTS CDs out.

Also, regarding the 6 RCA jacks, that is for DVD-A setup (not what you are looking for).

[colterphoto1]

Thanks guys, yes I was referring to DTS DVD, sorry for confusion. So let me get it straight.

The simplest mode would be to just use Yamahas 'cinema' modes, no dolby, no PL, just ambince.

PLII takes the place of PL, where if I have an older VHS tape, it will take the 2ch track and interpolate 4 tracks, still with both rears the same info, steering logic vs discrete mix, no sub out, but the improvment of full range to center and rears.

I have nothing labeled Dolby Digital 5.1, just DTS. If I use it without the ex/ex option, I get a very nice mix. Looks like I need to use the optical leads to get the full 6.1/7.1.

Still don't know what the THX button does. It sounds good, would it be a different eq'd 5.1, or maybe it's my Dolby Digital with no options. This is the only 'mode' selector button with no subselections like (movie,music,game,etc.)

Yamaha should do a better job with their manuals. Maybe if they weren't translated from Japanese by a non-English speaking person it would make more sense (no offense intended, just a little irate here- why can't they produce an 'American' manual).

Thanks for the tips so far, lets keep at it.

Michael

[JewishAMerPrince]

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Still don't know what the THX button does. It sounds good, would it be a different eq'd 5.1, or maybe it's my Dolby Digital with no options. This is the only 'mode' selector button with no subselections like (movie,music,game,etc.)

----------------

This is difficult to explain, especially if you don't have a full understanding of how the various surround modes work. Simply put THX is an equalization scheme that trys to correct for the differences between multi channel movie theaters which have many speakers and a HT setup that has 6 or 8. There are things in the THX spec such as adaptive correlation, yada, yada yada all of which are very technical.

The need for THX equilazation is diminishing as more and more DVDs are being mixed to take into account typical HT equipment instead of theater equipment.

JR

[colterphoto1]

I do understand the THX scheme, it's just that it's not a separate button to toggle on or off like Loudness or FM filter. On the Yamaha it's EITHER DTS or THX or DD or PLII, so I can't have DD and toggle THX correction on/off. It's like it's a separate surround mode, but I don't know what rules it's playing by.

It's like on a top line Nikon camera with all the bells and whistles. You can put it on fully auto and let the camera do the thinking. Or you can understand what it is thinking and overrule the computer and switch circuits off and decide for yourself. I can't believe that Yamaha would make it so screwed up looking. Other than that the remote is excellent. Well except for the 1-0 number pad is FOUR digits wide, unlike every calculator, computer and phone number pad you've ever used

1234

5678

90xx

how friggin stupid is that, just cause all the other buttons are four wide! ARRRGGHH

Michael

[tkot]

my nad t163 has;

dd(only used for non dts encoded dvd's)

prologic/II (used on some older cd's)

dts, movie/music ( used with the analogue inputs for most tv viewing, this eliminates the constant switching between dd/non dd during commercials and does a great job with all signals.

even on a hi-def channel broadcast in dd5.1 i think the dts sounds better.)

and if your set up is 5.1 switch the "ex" to off

jay

[AnalOg]

If my memeory serves me, THX sets all speakers to small & cuts crossover at 80hz.

Tom

[wheelman]

Michael to run DTS you must be hooked up either digital coax or toslink/optical. Or if your dvd player has a built in decoder you could do the rca connectors to each channel. I would go with a simple coax or toslink/optical. Now when you do this you must set your receiver to either coax or toslink/optical for the dvd input. Which ever one you chose to go with. Just make sure you look at your receiver and dvd player to make sure they are both compatible. Like they both take optical or if they both take coax. Ok alot of times you need to go into your dvd player and in the setup menu, and set it up to accept dts ( all my dvd players did this). Also when your about to view a dvd concert or movie you should go into the language or audio setup menu on the actual dvd menu, and make sure your getting what you want. My dvd player always plays in two channel so I have to go and change it. I am sure I can fix this somehow on one of the menues. Hope this helps your dts problem.

[colterphoto1]

I'm getting closer to understanding, keep it coming.

While we're at it, the old SOny DVD seems to be skipping or repeating DVD chapters more frequently lately. WIll also CH13 (error out) on discs that my computer will play.

Time for more toys...

I've always like the Sony for it's features and remote. FF, FF2, slow, slow2 + back in all the same speeds. Seemed pretty simple. Also Audio track, subtitle right on remote without stopping to go into menu. Not a lot of $$. Like I tell everyone, I don't want the Yugo, can't afford the Mercades, an Accord will do nicely (I drive an Accord, it found the way down IndyKlipschFan's ravine, remember?)

So hints for a new DVD player for under the tree? Don't necessarily see myself in the SACD, dvdaudio realm soon either, so not really a consideration.

Thanks,

Michael

[wheelman]

I like onkyo for the price. They are rock solid the fronts are metal not plastic, and they have a great picture. They will also play mp3 and read out all the info on your tv. Heck it's just like having a jukebox with one cd. I got mine not to long ago at crutchfield for about 125. If you don't like em you can always send it back postage paid from crutchfield. That is a great place to shop for stuff like that. Your only out the shipping to you, and they don't charge alot for that either.

[colterphoto1]

bump, anybody else?

[Steve_OConnor]

I have had the Yamaha RX-V2400 for 10 Months. I waited for PLIIx adder that came out in units in early 2004. There is excellent information (pretty in-depth review) at http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRXV2400Receiver-p2.html

I added 2 RS-25's for back surround channels for 7.1. It is an awesome add for depth of sound. Now with 7.1 available (went through auto setup again to pick up additional 2 speakers) PLIIx upconverts 2ch, 5.1, DTS to 7.1. Also now have THX EX available. EX DVD's Star Wars, LOTR now fill in surround back speakers.

EX/ES button forces EX or ES decoder to AUTO, ON or off. Dolby Digital button picks up flags from DVD, Sattelite or Cable source inputs. You definately have to mess with the settings but it is worth it.