pixpop Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I'm currently looking to buy a pair of Heresys to use with a low power SET in a small (10 x 12) room. I'm trying to choose between Heresy and Heresy II. I've read some comments that the Heresy II has lower impedance, yet the Klipsch site says that both are nominally 8 Ohms. Can anyone sort me out on this issue? Is there any reason to prefer the original Heresy over the Heresy II for this application? Also, I've read that the original Heresy has a removeable back panel that facilitates modifications and upgrades, whereas access for the Heresy II is through the driver holes only. Can anyone confirm? Is this an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 What kind of music do you listen to, and how loud? Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 pixpop, welcome to the forum. it is true that the back is removable on the original heresy, not on the heresy II. Probably is a little easier to get into the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixpop Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Well, I listen to a lot of different things. I just got this Oscar Peterson CD "exclusively for my friends Volume 3" which is stunning. I like female vocals / Jazz as well as classical, especially things like Schubert Piano Trios, Kronos Quartet. I don't listen terribly loud. If I need loud, I can put the headphones on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Pix, There are many differences between the H and H II, but important ones pertaining to SETs are: This is not often mentioned - The size of the midrange horn driver diaphame in the old Heresy is the same as the rest of the true Heritage - 2 inches. In the H II its 1.5 inches. This I have seen discussed in this forum - The impedance curve of the old Heresy has its minimum in the mid bass at 10 ohms - Technically, this qualifies as a nominally rated 16 ohm speaker. it may be played on the 16 ohm taps of the SET. I don't recall the H II impedance specs, but it should not be put on 16 ohm tap. Hope that helps, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I listem mostly to chamber classical with occasional large orchestra and/or chorus. Some pipe organ. I prefer my 3.5W SET with my two 101dB/W @ 1M speakers (one of them may be 102dB). With the Pipe organ, and some large orchestral works I offload bass with a subwoofer (active crossover). Otherwise the 3.5W SET does it all. Generally I don't listen at high levels. I try for realistic amplitudes that I would hear at a good mid-hall seat .. sometimes a tad more, because I think many recordings are engineered as though the seat is closer than mid-hall. The Heresys are 97dB/W @ 1M and so would want a bit over twice the power for similar performance. I would go for an 8W 300B SET as a first try. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I have mid 70's Heresy and listen with Wright SETs. I have found the combination to be excellent. I have probably pushed the Wrights past 2 watts a few times, but most of my serious listening is at less than 1 watt. This is with vinyl. I have hooked up a CD player and found its signal is MUCH louder - I estimate 10db louder minimum. The Heresy (old or new) will be plenty loud and clear for the way you describe your listening preferences. SETs excel at low volume level detail and midrange instrument/voice authenticity. If there is a way for you to hear the difference between the voicing in the midrange of the H and H II (borrow one of each?) it might be beneficial to your choice. I have a plot of the old Heresy impedance curve but it won't upload (no object?), but there is a high poin of 64 ohms just under 70Hz, the low is 10.2ohm at about 145Hz with another high point at 4000 Hz of 72 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Since pauln actually uses the combination, I'd go with his recommendation. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 ---------------- On 1/11/2005 1:15:29 PM leok wrote: The Heresys are 97dB/W @ 1M and so would want a bit over twice the power for similar performance. ---------------- Leo, It might be interesting if you would explain what 97dB/W @ 1M actually means in the real world of music as source, and less than perfectly efficient audio equipment, and assuming that many people sit farther than 1 meter away from their speakers. I am concerned that some Heresy owners may be led to believe that if they have a sound pressure level meter that indicates a reading less than 97dB, that they are using 1 watt or less and that they have no need for more than a 1 watt amp. Could you explain why one might want an 8W amp under these circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixpop Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 My SET will be the Bottlehead S.E.X to begin with. If that works out, I'll think of something with 2A3 or 300B in the future. This amp has taps for 8 and 4 ohm spkrs. For headphones, they use a 10 ohm resistor across the output, so it will drive 10 ohms as well. I wasn't concerned about the output power so much.. I think I'll have enough for my small room. I was more wondering whether one kind of impedance curve would be better than another. I'll post on the bottlehead forum and ask them as well. Re removable back: It seems more likely that I would want to be doing mods to the older version than the newer version. Is the newer cabinet improved from a mechanical point of view.. i.e., rigidity, damping, etc? What difference does the smaller midrange driver diaphragm make in the Heresy II? I mean, is that a reason to choose the original, or the later version? Presumably they changed it for a reason. Also, I've seen some advertised (currently on eBay) as 10" speakers. I thought all the woofers were 12". Is this just a mistake on the advertiser's part, or are there some 10" versions out there? Sorry for all the questions. As you can tell, I'm a bit new at all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Klipsch will soon be releasing the new Heresy with a newly designed titanium midrange driver. But why not look into building a speaker around the Fostex FE207E full range papercone drivers. Some say this is the best type of speaker for nearfield listening with low powered SET amps. You can build these for under 250.00. Plans and speakers from WWW.MADISOUND.COM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I have khorns on a 23' wall, I sit about 15-16' from them. When my spl meter sez 97dB 3' from the speaker it is very loud at the seating position. I only do that when I home alone. People can't carry on a conversation except in an upstairs bedroom with the door closed. Since you're not listen to metal at high volumes I think you'll be just fine with SET and Heresy. Incidentally, I have Khorns, LaScalas, a Belle and a pair of Heresys I bought new in 78. I use an Eico hf-81 on the Khorns, the volume knob rarely gets above about 3. I doubt that Eico would make 10 watts wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Paul, It was a rough estimate: In order to get the same acoustic power in roughly the same physical configuration (whatever that is, within reason (speakers facing the listener 4 to 8 feet away), if a speaker has 3dB less sensitivity, then double the power will be used. Did I get that wrong? The dB numbers are simply the ratings of the speakers. I'm not implying any absolute level at which I listen .. just that 3.5W does fine for me with 101 or 102 dB sensitivity speakers. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Leo, No, of course there is nothing wrong with your calculation. What I was driving at is that some people think that because a speaker is, for example, rated at 104db/1w/m, and that they don't ever register 104dB on their SPL meter, that they would never need more than a 1W amp. I thought you might be able to clear up that erroneous conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Tom, I would never listen at 97dB as my average minimum level. At the same time, that would not suffice for realism of a loud peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 We're forgeting the Questions. 1)I don't know if the old or new are better,sorry never listened to either. 2)I dont believe the newer front loaded speakers would be any harder to modify or work on as you just have to pull the woofer and reach right in there. 3)You've already picked an amp so that is not a problem. 4)I don't think you can go wrong with either one. If you want you can always sell the one you bought and buy the other, or if you're like a bunch of these knuckleheads in here you can have a set of all the models k ever made 5)Yes, I believe they made the speaker with both the 10" and 12" woofer. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixpop Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Randy, thanks for the info. I think I'm going to go for the later model, because they're newer. Thanks all for the help. This seems a very friendly forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Pixpop, I don't believe you can go wrong with the newer ones. Hopefully you can find a pair close to you so you can check them out before buying. Does anyone here have a pair in good shape that they're thinking about selling? Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Paul, The listening rooms in my house are small, and I listen at moderate levels. Very many people listen at levels far above what I enjoy or can tolerate. For those people, the amp. powers I find optimal are totally inadequate. I try to provide some reference by pointing out the need to offload the subwoofer material from the SET for large organ and orchestral works. The only measurement device I have used is a digital oscilloscope to capture absolute maximum voltage excursions. My purpose was to determine the voltage capability I wanted from an amp. I was using the Forte-IIs at the time. In the end, I don't even look at an amp's power capability, but its voltage and current capabilities. My audio power reference is my ears, because I'm the person I have to please. I've never used a audio power meter of any kind. I hope that helps a bit. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Pixpop, Welcome. I have used SET with Heresy's in a small room and sounded very nice. I have nothing to do with these speakers. I have talked to Ray in the past and he helped me out even though I didn't buy the speakers from him. I don't know what price you were looking to spend but you might want to check these out. I know he is somewhere in CA. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1110157012 Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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