Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 1:32:55 PM boomac wrote: You tellin' me you can't visually see the instruments Allan? Thats about the only way, for most of us, to experience these sessions. ---------------- I have to admit when I close my eyes I can see Paul Chambers with that bow in his hand goin' to town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 " A pure mono rig would be best but life is full of compromises." Or a three channel system up front using good surround decoding. It would send the mono material just to your center channel so you would get rid of the comb filtering. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 I KNEW this discussion would eventually go from multi-channel to one-channel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Yea, you should have posted it in the Home Theater section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 You're probably right Q-Man. They may have been a little kinder over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 "Flip the switch on the pre to mono for some records, but listen through both speakers" I dont have a mono switch on my pre and just listen in exactly the same way as I would for a stereo record. What does the mono switch do? From the descriptions presented I guess I get much the same effect as you lot do - the music is concentrated in the centre giving the illusion of having a single centrally placed speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Ah--the mono switch. One of my peeves regarding new phono preamps is that MOST of them don't bother with this feature. Once you have lived WITH the mono switch I doubt you would want to give it up if you play a good number of mono LPs When you flip the switch there is a dramatic reduction in NOISE. With the preamp in STEREO mode any noise is spread out across the "stereo" image--it will come from either or both speakers and can be VERY annoying. When you flip the MONO switch much of this noise is actually cancelled out and what remains is focused only in the center "image" with the music and receeds far into the background. The difference when playing a VG condition LP can be astonishing. The next step is to get yourself a cartridge with a conical stylus--it will ride higher in the groove and be MUCH quieter than a modern stylus which can actually bottom out in an old mono pressing and start bouncing around--you can only imagine what THAT sounds like. And I guess the ulitmate solution is a mono cartridge. Since mono records have information only in ONE plane, any Stereo cartridge will pick "noise" from the unused plane. A mono cartridge will not read that plane, so potentially 50% of any noise will be eliminated by using a mono cartridge. This is my next step--I just need to find an old mono SPU and get it rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 12:34:20 PM bclarke421 wrote: I guess it technically would dual mono, then. I think he does what I do. Flip the switch on the pre to mono for some records, but listen through both speakers. I s'pose I could turn one speaker all the way down... I've toywed with the idea of getting a mono rig set up. I have a homemade University corner horn, c. 1956. It works fine, but I have nowhere in the house to put it. Plus, wifey would strangle me dead if I even brought it up. ---------------- "techically dual mono"? Mono, "hill and dale" or horizontal plane? Custom Heathkit Model A-4 JBL 130A JBL DLH 175 JBL N1200 Garrard 301/Rega RB300 Stanton cartridge/Truncated stylus Home made "EQ" "black box" Back to Mono Multi-Channel is a gimmick, please refer to the original Hafler circuit for multiple speaker arrangements. Your buddy, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thanks for that Allan, "When you flip the switch there is a dramatic reduction in NOISE. With the preamp in STEREO mode any noise is spread out across the "stereo" image--it will come from either or both speakers and can be VERY annoying. When you flip the MONO switch much of this noise is actually cancelled out and what remains is focused only in the center "image" with the music and receeds far into the background. The difference when playing a VG condition LP can be astonishing." One of the things I like about listening to mono recordings is that any noise is usually either in the left or the right speaker but almost never in the centre where the music is. If the mono switch works as I guess it does and eliminates any sound not coming equally out of both speakers then that is something I WANT. I think I know exactly how much noise will be eliminated doing this - even if it is only a proportion of the noise I currently detect. The bugger is that my old amp (Accuphase E211) had a mono button and I never knew what it was for (the days before I returned to vinyl). My new system, of course, doesnt. Does the blueberry have a mono button? How much is it again - for the mythical European version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hello again, Since the subject came up, The total downward force of a stylus is divided equally between the two groove walls, each of which gets an equal amount of lateral and vertical force. As long as the vertical forces exceed the lateral, the stylus will stay seated in the groove. Conical tips contact with the groove wall can cover several cycles of a short wavelength modulation. This is one of many reasons conical styli are more prone to incorrect tracing and intermodulation distortion, most notably in the high frequencies. These flaws can be tamed to some degree by the cartridge's compliance, but record damage still occurs. If one were to suffer the the ill effects of a "bouncing" stylus/cartridge, it would indicate a fundamentally flawed cartridge, arm, table interface, or setup. It is predominantly a function of compliance. The problems inherent with conical styli may not be audible to the average listener, but it is guarantied that with continued use they will inflict more damage to an LP's grooves than any other type. Happy listening! Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 " If the mono switch works as I guess it does and eliminates any sound not coming equally out of both speakers then that is something I WANT." No, it just mixes the L and R channels together, pretty much the same as the Klipsch minibox does. The only difference is that the output of the L/Rs being combined is then output on the L/R of the pre-amp. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 We've been enjoying three channels very much by way of the Klipsch minibox, although I really miss the sense of ambience and air and space we got with Shawn's carefully balanced Lexicon. It was a marvelous component, and provided a generous amount of control and flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickPuppy Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Sorry I gotta ask, but what was the recording MFSL LP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Vast numbers of vintage mono records have "U" shaped grooves as opposed to the "V" shaped grooves found on all stereo records. A modern line-contact stylus can absolutely bottom out in the mono groove and this adds NOISE. I agree that a conical stylus may not be such a good idea for stereo "V" grooves: Here is the same groove with a line contact stylus: Now imagine each of these in a U-shaped groove and you'll see why the line-contace may indeed "bottom out." I have serveral Ortofon SPUs and they are a snap to pop on and off the SME arm--5 minutes TOTAL for me to make the change from the conical to the line-contact tip. I don't play Stereo pressings with the conical stylus unless I'm VERY lazy or the record is in rough shape already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 it's really sad that some individuals have nothing to contribute to the multichannel SACD discussion and feel the need to hi-jack this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 DUDE! Max was the guy who brought up "mono." All threads have a life of their own and can take strange routes. What exactly bothers you about this? I don't understand why you think this is "sad." Max asked a legitimate question and he got some good answers. Do you think he should have gone to the trouble of starting a new thread? Maybe. But I don't think anyone "hijacked" this thread for any reason other than to address Max's legitimate questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 7:23:01 PM Allan Songer wrote: DUDE! Max was the guy who brought up "mono." All threads have a life of their own and can take strange routes. What exactly bothers you about this? I don't understand why you think this is "sad." Max asked a legitimate question and he got some good answers. Do you think he should have gone to the trouble of starting a new thread? Maybe. But I don't think anyone "hijacked" this thread for any reason other than to address Max's legitimate questions. ---------------- Really? YOU are the one that brought up MONO in the 9th post of this thread QUOTE: "I think you've been spoiled by really excellent ONE-channel hi fidelity recordings and are merely reacting to the inherently phony nature of the multi-channel remix. My advice is to go spin some mono vinyl through your Khorns--all will be well again." UNQUOTE why don't you share with us why you feel that multi-channel mixes are "inherently phony"..... esp considering that in a concert hall you will hear sounds coming from the sides and even the rear as reflections..... and many of the better well recorded multichannel SACD's recreate this information very accurately.... check out the the telarc catalog for many excellent examples maybe you can also tell us the many multichannel recordings that you have heard that are "inherently phony" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I was teasing Gary who has recently discoverd the joys of old mono LPs. I meant NO disrespect for 5.1! Just look at my later posts in the thread for crying our loud! Why don't you tell me about all the great 5.1 mixes derived from 1950's mono recordings? I have almost no experience with 5.1 or 7.1 other than what I have heard in friend's homes. I have heard/seen some concert DVDs that are GREAT. And one other thing--this thread was hijacking the entire 2-channel forum--it really should have been posted in the Home Theater Forum. Sorry you're bummed out over this--nobody was TRYING to piss you off, BELIEVE me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Sorry, had answered the wrong post. Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 7:17:27 PM Allan Songer wrote: Vast numbers of vintage mono records have "U" shaped grooves as opposed to the "V" shaped grooves found on all stereo records. A modern line-contact stylus can absolutely bottom out in the mono groove and this adds NOISE. I agree that a conical stylus may not be such a good idea for stereo "V" grooves: http://www.needleexpress.com/conical.jpg" width=232> Here is the same groove with a line contact stylus: http://www.needleexpress.com/Faq.ht3.jpg" width=236> Now imagine each of these in a U-shaped groove and you'll see why the line-contace may indeed "bottom out." I have serveral Ortofon SPUs and they are a snap to pop on and off the SME arm--5 minutes TOTAL for me to make the change from the conical to the line-contact tip. I don't play Stereo pressings with the conical stylus unless I'm VERY lazy or the record is in rough shape already. ---------------- Yes, I agree that selecting the appropriate stylus shape or profile for the given medium would be an essential condition of a proper setup. I thought we were talking about "bouncing" and multichannel SACDs. I stand corrected. Adios, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.