doodah67 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hello all, I currently have a Pioneer Elite 49tx. I am wondering if it will have enough power to run the Ultra2's. Anybody have a Pioneer running these? On another point has anybody personally compared the Ultra2 to the Ref7? I can get the Ultra2 system for about $2000 more...are they worth it? thanks Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 what will it be used for? mostly theater or mostly music? or 50/50? if its going to be mostly ht then definetly the ultras. other wise if its 50/50 or more bent towards music then the 7's. but either way you'll have a system that rocks!! and as for the power, that receiver is enough but youd be much better off going with seperate amps. use that receiver for the pre amp. but im no expert about the amp part, im just stating what ive heard on the boards. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodah67 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 thanks... so far its been 95% movies 5% music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 It really is mismatching the system to have an Ultra2 or Ref7 system run off a receiver. And while I am sure that it can run them, physically... you'll be losing a lot of quality and headroom. If the difference between an RF-7 and Ultra2 system is $2000, I'd say put the $2000 into better electronics and go with the Ref7 system (just make sure to have a big sub like an RSW-15 to go with it). I haven't had a chance to compare the Ultra2 system to Ref7, but I hear that a good option would be to go with Ref7 but get the pair of Ultra2 subwoofers to go with it, instead of an RSW sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 i agree with meuge on this. those speakers deserve much better power. i didnt quite state that in the first post of mine. and you didnt tell us what format this is. is it 5.1,6.1 or7.1 setup? that will definetly make a difference in price. and whats the size of the room thats its going into(im guessing its a dedicated room?). scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 What the 2 strapping young lads above me said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I have used the Pioneer 49TX, 49TXi and 59TXi on Klipsch Reference 7s. The 49TX and early 49TXis had shut down problems driving low impedance (4 ohm) loads. The problem was a overly sensitive protection circuit. I have never had a shutdown problem with any of the Pioneer receivers on the Reference 7s. The THX Ultra2 speakers are less sensitive than the RF-7s. I doubt that you would have a problem running the Ultra2s with the 49TX. Outboard amplification would definitely improve on the sound of the system. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodah67 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Ok thanks.... I am currently running 7.1. My room is 26x19. So far my 49tx hasen't clipped. (knock on wood) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 8:08:30 AM doodah67 wrote: Ok thanks.... I am currently running 7.1. My room is 26x19. So far my 49tx hasen't clipped. (knock on wood) ---------------- you may not have heard any clipping... but i am willing to bet that it has happened... extremely dynamic music and even more so movies can suddenly demand 10 to 20 times the power output of your average level.... on some classical music in my room of 25' x 14' with my KLF-30's, my amplifier hit it's peak output of 225 watts for brief instances.... and for the rest of the recording the amp was just coasting along at 5 to 10 watts (if that).... i tried the same passage using the internal amps on my pioneer elite 55txi (100 watts per channel) and it did not sound like clipping to me.... but it did sound much subdued and the character of the music on those peaks changed... without first hearing it with the full power from my outboard amp, i may never have realized what i was missing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/15/2005 6:23:52 PM doodah67 wrote: Hello all, I currently have a Pioneer Elite 49tx. I am wondering if it will have enough power to run the Ultra2's. Anybody have a Pioneer running these? On another point has anybody personally compared the Ultra2 to the Ref7? I can get the Ultra2 system for about $2000 more...are they worth it? thanks Duane ---------------- The speakers are the most important chain in the audio stream and whenever possible you should purchase the better speaker and worry about other upgrades later. Media formats change over time and you're bound to have to buy a new reciever sometime in the future; that's not to say your pioneer is shabby either. If at all possible, I would recommend going to the store and hearing for yourself the difference between the two lines and choose the speaker that sounds better to you. I do know that the Ultra2 series was designed specifically for movie playback and fits every standard of the THX spec. Of the people on the forum that have actually A/B'd the two lines (or at least stated it), they all claim the THX Ultra2 system kicks the crap out of the Reference series on movies. The posts of those without personal experience between the two lines are stating mere projections of how they think they will sound. The Ultra2 lineup is fairly new and I don't know of many people on the forum that own the system let alone have heard it, so naturally it will be a bit under represented. On a side note, it was mentioned by someone that peaks up to 250watts have been experienced. If you simply reduce your listening volume by 3dB, then your peaks will now be only 125 watts which is within the 160 watts your reciever is capable of (a difference of 3dB = a doubling of power). At 130 watts and the rated 97dB sensitivity, you're looking at 120dB output from each speaker...so in your room with two speakers you're looking at 126dB which is deafening loud...the loudest of rock concerts tend to be around 110dB and 16dB is over six times louder. I'm sure someone will chime in and point out that specs are probably overrated But even if the amp can only do 64 watts, you're still looking at 115dB from each speaker (coming to about 121dB in room response with both speakers playing). Btw, are you able to get the Ultra2 lineup including the subwoofers too? That sounds like a wicked awesome deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodah67 Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Btw, are you able to get the Ultra2 lineup including the subwoofers too? That sounds like a wicked awesome deal to me. ---------------- Thanks for your thoughts. Yes.. the system includes the 2 subs and amp. The Ref7 would be the 2 RF7's, RC7, and 4 RS7's. The one big problem I have here in East Tn is that nobody around has any Ultra2's on display... There's a Tweeter store in Chattanooga but they've stopped selling Klipsch. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 http://www.klipsch.com/locator/index.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I have them both and we've had them side by side many times. The Ultra 2 system is definitely a step up for both movies and music (IF you use the KL-650's in the front and cross them in at 63hz, with 525's there is a bit of a hole). The Ultra 2's are very revealing and require a good set of electronics to drive and a more careful setup to achieve what the system is capable of. Yes, they are worth it. RF-7's are also great, but they may be the only Klipsch speaker that is actually a challenge to drive from an amplifier standpoint, and thus they also like some horsepower and do unquestionably benefit from better electronics. While a reciever will certainly make both of them work...it will not bring the best out of either system. There is, however, a way to get your cake and eat it too. What I've done for several clients on a budget is to have them go with a step down from the top of the line reciever, but then we add power amps to the front 3 channels. This works well as the preamps stage of most recievers isn't usually half bad. The cost often doesn't turn out to be much more since the step from upper mid to top of the line in most reciever ranges is usually in the $1000-1500 price range. It also gets you a good start in the direction of getting separates. In the case of the RF-7's, we recommend biamping them. We've put some of the little Flying Mole monoblock amps which are dirt cheap at $499 each and sound *PHENOMINAL* with Klipsch. They also have the advantage in that they are so tiny, they take up almost zero space. We use them on the horns and use the built in amps on the bottom with the crossovers set up at 40hz to take a bit of load off the bottom end for the reciever. This seems to work very well and it distributes the load with an added advantage in that the Flying Moles have gain controls allowing for a subtle amount of tuning (the RF-7's can sometimes benefit from a 1-2db taming down). In the case of the Ultra 2's, the Flying Moles sound great on the speakers, period. If you absolutely have to take a step down for budget, I'd actually look at a Ref 75 system instead since RB-75's are more forgiving of amplifiers and are easier to tune in. RB-75's are an easy sell later on or and sound great by themselves as a second room system bookshelf speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 ---------------- On 2/24/2005 8:50:16 PM SoundBroker wrote: ....In the case of the RF-7's, we recommend biamping them. We've put some of the little Flying Mole monoblock amps which are dirt cheap at $499 each and sound *PHENOMINAL* with Klipsch. They also have the advantage in that they are so tiny, they take up almost zero space. We use them on the horns and use the built in amps on the bottom with the crossovers set up at 40hz to take a bit of load off the bottom end for the reciever. This seems to work very well and it distributes the load with an added advantage in that the Flying Moles have gain controls allowing for a subtle amount of tuning (the RF-7's can sometimes benefit from a 1-2db taming down). In the case of the Ultra 2's, the Flying Moles sound great on the speakers, period. ---------------- spending $1000 on outboard amps for you mains and you still have to run them small?!?!?!? i know that the flying moles are good (although low powered) digital amps, but i can suggest a better sounding option for less money and better bass control on your RF-7's a carver professional ZR1000 digital amplifier gives you the great top end like the flying moles and it allows you to run the RF-7's set to large with great bass control with 225 watts per channel at 8 ohms..... much better bass response than you will get from the pioneer elite receiver... and if you run your system hard or have a large room, you will want more power than the creative biamping solution you suggested..... the carver pro ZR1000 amp sells online at many different sites for about $800 i have used one of these great amps for about a year and a half - paired with my pioneer elite 55txi and my KLF-30's... another option would be to get a 5 channel sunfire amp.... they have 200 watts per channel and sell for about $1000 used on audiogon and ebay... MrMcGoo (Bill) uses one with his RF-7's and is very pleased with the sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I sense a conflict of interest in this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 If SS outboard amplification is used on RF-7s, there should be no need to bi-amp the 7s. The RF-7s are not the easiest load, but it is the woofer section that needs the help, not the high frequency section. Once the woofers get the power they need, the tiny amount of power needed by the horn is already there in great abundance. Reduction of the horn's load on the system is clearly of VERY little help in driving the woofers. I know because I have used the bi-amp feature on my receiver, a Pioneer flagship. Russ has given two suggestions that could easily drive the RF-7s. There are many more that also work well. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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