Speaker size and crossover settings

[Zen Traveler]

toddvj,

thanks for the reply. I am still trying to wrap my mind around what you are saying because I want to be informed;-)

I have to gage what I think you are saying with what it says in my owners Manuel for the RSW-15:

LOW PASS ENABLE/DISABLE--This switch routes the signal of the "line-in"jack in one of two ways......In the "Disable (LFE mode) position, the signal bypasses the "low Pass crossover." This allows the "line-in" jack to be used as an unfiltered LFE input. In this case, the "line-in" input jack should only be connected to the filtered LFE (.1) subwoofer channel output of your digital surround electronics as this input is not filtered by the "low pass" control.

[toddvj]

tk, In other words, they are saying, hook up your sub to the subwoofer pre-out and not, say, the Left Front Pre-Out. If you hooked it up the second way and left the Low Pass Disabled, you'd hear voices coming out of your sub.

[sivadselim]

even with the front speakers set to LARGE, the RECEIVER'S crossover setting DOES come into play in a multichannel situation if any other speakers are set to SMALL.

the RECEIVER'S crossover setting also comes into play if the front speakers are set to LARGE and you use an "LFE+Main" type setting, which, btw, creates redundant bass, which is usually undesirable.

and "LFE+Main" does NOT send any LFE to the mains. LFE ALWAYS goes to the sub and ONLY the sub if your receiver "thinks" you have a sub. with an "LFE+Main" setting, the bass below your crossover setting, that is normally only destined for your mains, will be duplicated and produced by the sub, too.

[Zen Traveler]

I don't understand what the Klipsch manual means if the "low pass control" has nothing to do with the "low pass crossover (knob ) in the manuelI will keep reading your above post along with the manuel until I understand. Everyone have a good weekend--I have to be away fom my Klipsch for a couple of days

[sivadselim]

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On 3/4/2005 11:23:21 AM tkdamerica wrote:

I don't understand what the Klipsch manual means if the "low pass control" has nothing to do with the "low pass crossover (knob ) in the manuelI will keep reading your above post along with the manuel until I understand. Everyone have a good weekend--I have to be away fom my Klipsch for a couple of days

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i edited my post so it's clear to you that i was referring to the RECEIVER'S crossover.

with the sub's low pass control DISABLED, the sub's crossover knob is disabled and, essentially, the sub will (try to) produce ANY frequencies sent to it. so the receiver's crossover setting controls what the sub plays in this situation (provided the sub is connected to the receiver's LFE-out and not it's pre-outs).

with the low pass control ENABLED, the sub's crossover knob is enabled. usually this would only be used if your sub is connected to the receiver/pre-pro's pre-outs, although sometimes, in special situations, people will utilize both the receiver's crossover and the sub's crossover, even when the sub is connnected to the receiver/pre-pro's LFE-out, to "cascade" the crossovers in an effort to eliminate undesirable (or produce desirable) effects. this is usually rarely done, though.

as he said, it IS more complicated than his explanation, but whoever said LFE can sometimes extend beyond 80Hz and on up to ~120Hz IS correct. most people are OK with this very, very slight loss of LFE info during movie playback, as MOST of the LFE is still in the lower range, and doesn't always extend up to ~120Hz when LFE is there - only sometimes. and even with an 80Hz crossover setting, the sub still produces significant output in the range from 80-120Hz.

[Zen Traveler]

I have my RSW 12 connected from my receivers SW pre out to the subs input--then I have the RSW 12 preout sent to my RSW 15 line in. I have both sub+ mains selected and am thrilled with the results. I have tried various scenarios over the years and will continue to do so. I am also probably the only forum member not thrilled by Diana Krahl, so I understand my opinions are suspect. I really must go.

[sivadselim]

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On 3/4/2005 11:47:27 AM tkdamerica wrote:

I have my RSW 12 connected from my receivers SW pre out to the subs input--then I have the RSW 12 preout sent to my RSW 15 line in. I have both sub+ mains selected and am thrilled with the results. I have tried various scenarios over the years and will continue to do so. I am also probably the only forum member not thrilled by Diana Krahl, so I understand my opinions are suspect.

I really must go.

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it's actually better to use a Y-splitter instead of the "first" sub's pre-out to connect 2 subs, as in your setup.

i'm not thrilled by diana krall either, but her CDs can make a great gift, sometimes. my grandmother loves the ones i gave her.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!

[toddvj]

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On 3/4/2005 11:47:27 AM tkdamerica wrote:

I have my RSW 12 connected from my receivers SW pre out to the subs input--then I have the RSW 12 preout sent to my RSW 15 line in. I have both sub+ mains selected and am thrilled with the results. I have tried various scenarios over the years and will continue to do so. I am also probably the only forum member not thrilled by Diana Krahl, so I understand my opinions are suspect.

I really must go.

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That's the way I have mine hooked up, too. Don't know why a Y-Splitter would be any better.

And I think Diana Krall Sucks. Good looking, but her music is boring and stupid, as is all Jazz music.

[sivadselim]

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On 3/4/2005 1:34:38 PM toddvj wrote:

That's the way I have mine hooked up, too. Don't know why a Y-Splitter would be any better.

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"supposedly" there is undesirable degradation of the signal as it passes through the first sub. i don't know this for a fact.

but ask the question in the sub forum - "sub's pre-out or y-splitter for 2 subs?" it will be recommended that you NOT use the sub's pre-out.

[Zen Traveler]

sivadselim

Thanks for the Y-splitter advice but aesthetically it must stay the way it is right now. What you say about "LFE+main" rings true in theory and I will continue to experiment, however running the LFE to both seems to work for me. I will post pics of my theater soon and it may explain a lot. I really have an obnoxious room and my set up is unique.

I am running large speakers (4 towers/RC-7/2 RS-7&2 RB 75's) with my 2 subs. I sit close to all of the speakers, between 4 ft to 9 ft to every speaker. Setting all to LARGE gives me- more directional impact on action scenes. I also tried the difference between the LFE settings, and It seems that when "LFE +mains" is selected, gun shots and aircraft maneuvers are more directional, either coming out of the left or the right front sound field. I think it is because my RSW-12 is at a right angle (side wall) from my front, left speaker. I also think choosing "LFE + mains," rounds out the power of the RSW- 15 that sits directly behind me under my rears surround left.

On my most bass intensive concert DVD, Genesis --"Live at Wembley," I thought my left front speaker was clipping! Long story short, selecting "Lfe only" remedied this situation. I think the redundant bass you were talking about, over--powered my Left front channel. Thanks for the help.

[jacksonbart]

Ok last night I changed my mind, I changed the settings to be LFE+mains, with the cross over still set to 60hz. I moved the seating over so I was in the sweet spot and plied my self with a few beers during the process. I moved the RF7s more in the corners and toed them in and I moved the RSW15 in between the right Rf7 and the Samsung. I have to say U2 and Clapton sounded awesome. The base was full and controlled (more so then when the sub was in the corner and the sound stage is much bigger). You could hear each pluck of the bass guitar and the punch of the bass drum with no over hang. When I turned it up, above -17 on the Denon, I could feel the bass in my chest. The Denon handled the low ohm bass load for the RF7s, well down to 60hz with ease. The Clapton's guitar solos were clean/goose bumply while Bono's voice was awesome. I have so much fun when my wife is out fo town.

[Zen Traveler]

Jack,

That is a REAL nice set up you have there.

I have my RF-7's where the front of the Left speaker makes a "corner" with a protruding fire place (not in use), and the Front Right with a Bookcase making a corner at the front of the speaker--Both in line with my TV. Our room dimensions seem to be similar however I have an A-frame main viewing area and low rear surround ceiling, on the 2nd floor. We sit approximately the same distance from our surround speakers.

It looks like you are considerably more comfortable with your seating;-) I have a futon that is just comfortable enough to watch movies, but not fall asleep. I feel that the brews go down as smooth in both theaters.