BobbyT Posted March 27, 2005 Author Share Posted March 27, 2005 I do have a rough budget with a little room to play. I did have a lot of room to play but I decided to buy a nice set of wheels and tires for my car . I have a lot more CDs than anything else right now. But after I have the new system I am planning on getting more SACDs, concert DVDs, and DVDAs if dualdisc doesn't put an end to them. I'm also going to hook up an Apple airport express for internet radio. That is another plus for the Pioneer as it has a usb input for streaming music from a computer. If I don't get the Pioneer setup I will need a universal player with good dacs and good bass management. I'm in Louisville, Ky. Now that I think about it I believe we talked over this past Christmass about seeing the Trans Siberian Orchesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYRO Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 I would go with choice 2! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 BobbyT, The RS-7s and RS-3IIs were for movies, but work well for multi-channel music. There isn't that much information in the surround speakers in most SACDs and DVD-As. If your music is all digital (CD, SACD and DVD-A), then the bass capablilties of your mains becomes less important. The receiver can do bass management on all digital sources and send bass frequencies to the subwoofer. This is one of the main advantages of the i.link system. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Bobby, Got to thinking about my post and the one wrench in the works would be your %use of SACD's and concert DVD's. I think that those should be treated more like 'movie' sources since they are more dependent on a fully evenly matched 5.1 system than a 2ch lover for instance. As you near 50% or more movie/SACD/concertDVD use, your system should reflect this by being more balanced front/rear in your speaker selection. That is where I might amend my earlier response to say that perhaps the RB75 all around might be better than the RF7 with smaller rear surrounds. Sorry to confuse. Think before buying. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 It sounds like you have alot of good suggestions and if you have until August who knows what could happen;-) I have 2 last thoughts for you: 1) I own both the RB-75's and the RF-7's. My wife and I just watched "Troy," I can't imagine taking away the RF-7's and replacing them with RB-75's for front speakers! I agree with Colterphoto's first post. and 2) I watch/listen to 70% music/Concert videos-30% movies. Most DVD concert video's essential sound comes out of your front 3 speakers--I would not sacrifice on them for either movies or music. But when it comes to High Resolution Audio and Mr.McGoo writes: "The RS-7s and RS-3IIs were for movies, but work well for multichannel music. There isn't that much information in the surround speakers in most SACDs and DVD-As. " True that the RS-7's and RS-3's were made for movies and wouldn't be "bad" for music, but on the 40 DVD-A/SACD's that I own there is alot of information in the surround speakers (unless it is a 2 channel SACD). A Direct radiating speaker would be more beneficial, and in fact is what SACD/DVD-A recommends for surrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 The killer surrounds for music as well as movies IMO are either another set of floor standers or the RC-7s. None of the bookshelf speakers or wide dispersion speakers can keep up with the RF-7s. If I had the space, I would have another pair of RF-7s. The RS-7s are good for their size and can handle a wide range of material. The multi-channel music recommendation that identical speakers be used all around is not very practical in my experience. The type of high resolution music that folks listen to determines the amount of information in the surrounds. I listen to alot of classical music, so there is very little information in the surrounds. The rock that I have generally puts crowd sounds in the rear. There is very little music in the surrounds IMO because most folks find it very annoying. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I enjoy discussions such as this and I feel I learn alot from this forum. MrMcGoo writes: "The type of high resolution music that folks listen to determines the amount of information in the surrounds. I listen to alot of classical music, so there is very little information in the surrounds. The rock that I have generally puts crowd sounds in the rear. There is very little music in the surrounds IMO because most folks find it very annoying." I agree with what type of music a person listens to may make a difference on what comes out of the surrounds--I only have 2 classical SACD's "Tchaikovsky 1812," and 'Orgg Carmina Burana," (although both have considerable surround tracks ). Insofar as Rock is concerned I will agree that the majority of concert video's put the crowd noise in the surrounds (some sound more obnoxious than others), but the non concert Rock DVD-A and SACD's put backing vocals, instruments, and sound effects that add to the experience IMHO. We are also in complete agreement when it comes to RF-7's all of the way around. I have tried RS-7's, RB-75's and RF-3's as side surrounds and short of the RF-7's, the RF-3's are my favorite and what I use. BobbyT has a pair of RF-3's that he can use when he moves. I understand that SACD recommends the exact speakers all of the way around and may be where he got the 5 RB-75 idea--That being said, I still will argue that replacing 2 of them with RF-7's would sound better than 5 RB-75's. He already has the RF-3's (can't use them now) and would be a better replacement for 2 more of the RB-75's. Insofar as the RC-7 is concerned it is an excellent center channel with 2, 8 inch woofers--seems like a logical choice to use as a center channel. Now we have come full circle to my original response to his dilemma. By the way MrMcGoo--VERY nice equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 hirez music in the surrounds? try beck's "sea change" or anything similar. there's plenty in the surrounds on several of the sacds and dvd-as that i own. even neil young's "harvest", in 5.1, has a striking amount of info directed to the surrounds. bela fleck's "tales from the acoustic planet" has a different instrument in each speaker. etc., etc.. i WISH i had 5 identical speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 Thanks for all of the replies so far. It's given me a lot to think about. Which is why I'm asking now instead of right before I buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Hey Bobby, totally confused yet? What's the latest thought process? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 ---------------- On 3/28/2005 1:31:41 PM colterphoto1 wrote: Hey Bobby, totally confused yet? What's the latest thought process? Michael ---------------- Confused doesn't begin to cover it. And here I thought after 2 years of narrowing it down this post would have produced a clear winner. I have 2 thoughts going right now. 1 like MR Mcgoo just said, keeping everything digital lessens the need for the LR mains to produce bass because the Pioneer with i link will redirect it to the sub. And if I get the RSW15 this should be seamless. So 5 RB75s or 4 RB75s with RC7 and RSW15 I think would sound phenomenol letting the Pioneer do bass management, time alignment, and eqing. The other thought is to concentrate on just the front speakers and electronics and change surrounds when the time comes to move. This would be the B&K with the 3910 connected via analog for music. And 2 RF7s with a RC7 and probably a SVS sub for movies. I'd use the subs in the RF7s for bass on music. And then when I move space permitting bring out the RF3-II for surround. So I guess I'm right back where I started. One other thought is the RF7s would be safer since I have a 2 yr old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 One more quick thought on the B&K. It is upgradeable for future surround formats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Go with scenario 2 and don't look back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I would highly recommend going with the RF-7 for your mains (and then of course the matching RC-7 center speaker). Floorstanding speakers simply project a much larger sound, which is one of the reasons I love klipsch so much...a big large sound makes it oh so much more realistic. Part of this is due to the larger front baffle and having 4 10" woofers instead of just 2. The floorstanders will give you more bass, but also a more seamless transition between your mains and the sub. For example if you crossover at 80Hz, your mains will still be playing 40Hz material, just 12dB quieter. It takes 20dB to get the full masking effect, which essentially means your mains are playing material down to 20Hz (where they are -24dB)! I'm pretty sure most recievers use the 12db/octave slope (im yet to see this spec published). With a twice steeper slope, your mains will be playing 40Hz material (the -3dB point of the RB-75's...basically they're already rolling off "ahead" of schedule). Speaker-room interactions are going to have a much larger effect on the transition, but it never hurts to strive for perfection The RF-7's are also 5dB more sensitive which means about 1/4th the cone movement for the same SPL (and 1/4th the power needed to drive them). This basically means less distortion and less power compression. I wouldn't worry so much about the impedance response of the speaker until you become very familiar with their sound and start wanting some of the more subtle changes that can be brought about later. If the reciever you choose has pre-outs, then you always have the option of upgrading the amplifiers at a later time. I really doubt you'll be able to tell the difference until you first become acquainted with the speakers. If you start off with fancy amps, then you're never going to appreciate the benefits of it (and you're not really saving money in the process). The only downside that I can see with the RF-7 is that it's rear ported, so you might have some issues with positioning in a cramped space (like you can't put them flat against the wall or other furniture). Also, keep in mind the extra cost of purchasing stands for the RB-75's. I don't think I would ever trust any stand if I had a 2 year old running around...heck, at 21 I have trouble not knocking floorstanding speakers over (I am a clutz though). lol Before even purchasing new surround speakers, I would just get the mains and center channel first and do some listening with just your RS-35's as surrounds. If you find that you want a more localized rear soundfield, then get yourself some RB series speakers...if you like the diffuse sound, then perhaps consider upgrading to RS-7's (or adding rear speakers for a 7.1). Really though, it would be best to upgrade in stages so that you personally know and feel the differences that are happening. In the long run it will cost you the same amount, but you'll appreciate it a lot more. With two weeks of vacation to your disposal, you'll have plenty of time to upgrade in steps And lastly, try establishing a relationship with your local klipsch dealer and see if you can't get him to let you demo the RF7/RC7 combo and the RB75's up front (or even the RB75/RC7 combo). You are obviously going to be spending a lot of money and he's going to want to be the one selling it to you. Hearing for yourself is really the best way to make your own decision...it sounds like you'll have the time so I really encourage you try to take advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 I'm really leaning toword the RF7-RC7 combo now. But I really like the i link, usb input, and mcacc on the Pioneer. Plus I'm very happy with the Pioneer 45A I've been using, the 59AVI would just be so much better. Do you guys think the Pioneer will be strong enough to push the RF7s at least while I'm still in my smaller room? Then when we move later if I find myself with a larger room I could add an amp. I know TKD will say yes but what about the rest of you guys. I do have a great relationship with my Klipsch dealer. When I first started to go from synergy to reference they gave me full retail on trade in for my synergy despite thier age. And started giving me discounts on top of that. I think the guy I deal with is just as excited for me to get this new system as I am and not just cause of a big sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 One more thing on my budget. If I hold off on replacing surround speakers and external amps. Then the Pioneer 56Txi-59Avi combo with 2 RF7s, RC7, and RSW15 sub fall well within my budget. What do you guys think about this setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Go for the RF-7s and Pioneer receiver and don't look back. The Pioneer will make rated power with all channels driven. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 O.K., after reading everyone's replies, going over the alloted budget, and taking measurements I think I have a final system to listen to before purchase. The Pioneer Elite 56Txi-59Avi combo connected with i link. 2 RF7s with an RC7 and a SVS PC Ultra. The RSW 15 will not fit with the RF7s as well as the tube shaped Ultra will in my current room. If I'm going to get RF7s I want them to have breathing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Well thought out Bobby- great shopping list. Have FUN and let us know how you like it when you get done grinnin! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 I still have to wait till my target date this summer so I'll have time to do it all. Except of course one final listening session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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