I need turn table help (read time for a new obsession)

[maxg]

OK:

Rega P3/RB300 arm - seems a reasonable enough deal for $300. You will need a cart.

Sota Moonbeam turntable w/new AT95E MM cartridge - looks interesting but it may go out of your budget. What do these things retail for? According to the blurb he will let it go for 50% so I guess that is his reserve. A cute looking TT I know nothing about, but SOTA have a good name.

NAD 533 Turntable with extras/upgrades - that is a Rega under another name I am sure - the P2 methinks. Not the most honest of sellers I would guess. "I have upgraded to another table and do not need this one." Yet he is giving away a perfectly good record brush and the shure scale - why? Price currently at 255 and still not hit the reserve - on a table that retails for 499 according to him. Not a steal then.

Rega Planar 3 Turntable with Arm/Cartridge. That grace arm is a classic from days gone by (quite surprised only 7 bids). Low mass arms are rather rarer now - but they were all the range. Can be a bit limiting on your cartridge selections later on. - not for your first table.

First Rega or the moonbeam - on the basis of the products only - I am no ebay expert.

[dodger]

Thanks Max. Sorry to intrude in the thread. Nice to read about the 3009 - I've just found in some, the wires are more delicate.

Win

[rplace]

Thanks Max that was just the sort of info I was looking for. I'll kick these around and most likely continue to look.

Thanks again, Rich

[dragonfyr]

IMO I think Maxg is tight on the mark with his Projekt, Music Hall & Rega suggestions.

I might suggest the MusicHall MMF-5 as the best buy of the bunch at ~$600 new unless you are willing to go to at least the Rega P5 or above - and then I think we enter the area where the point of diminishing returns has been long past...but that is each individual's perogative. Especially when, unless you are collecting the well pressed vinyl, you are limited primarily by the program source.

[Shade]

I use a Rega P3 with a Shure V15 cart and have been quite happy with it. I believe they stopped making the V15, so there may be some deals to be had on them. Not really sure though.

You mentioned you might be interested in a Scott tube amp. I use a Scott 299a with the Rega. Depending on what you'd be looking to spend on a phono amp, it can be a good option as The Scott has a pretty good phono stage. It made sense for me as I was looking at $200 - $300 phono amps, and was already interested in getting a tube amp. Bought the Scott for around $500, and was quite happy with the result.

Disclaimer : This was my first decent turntable & my first tube amp. Others here have a lot of experience with more gear than I. Just sharing the direction I went & my own experiences.

[rplace]

Ok guys, you have given me some great info so far. I like what I read about the PRO-JECT 1 Xpression. Also the Music Hall MMF-5, but it is a bit out of my budget. I did have a chat with the seller of the Sota Moonbeam (did not meet ebay reserve) he is willing to sell it for 375+31 shipping from Canada. Check it out here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5764399806&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

The Rega PL3 is still available seller says it is late 90s model in nice shape but at 300 I still need a cart.

Any thoughts on these or others? Pro-Ject is tad out of budget toobut looking like I am not going to get what I want/need for 300.

BTY, GaryMD lent me his Thorens. Sounds pretty good to meI am guessing that is because is has a Shure v-15 in it. From what I read that is a pretty darn good cart. Will the ones that come stock with the 300-500 dollar tables sound anywhere near that good or am I setting myself up for disappointment after my current loaner?

Thanks a ton, Rich

[rplace]

Anyone, anyone???

[dragonfyr]

Think of the Music Halls as hot rodded/modified Projekts. Much like the Mesa Boogie amps began as hot rodded Fenders.

They are made in the same Czech plant.

Maxg has addressed a great many valid points, the most critical being that different cartridges mate differently with different arms.

As far as which is more important, TT or cartridge, I hesitate to say either is more important, although it is easier to change and experiment with cartridges then the TT.

And as far as the included cartridge with the new Music Halls, etc. They are fine. They mate nicely with the arms and until you are ready to experiment they should be more then adequate, especially as this is not a "cost is not an issue' situation.

The other option is buying used. You may be able to buy up for less, as the other fellow has taken the hit in depreciation.

But ESPECIALLY with turntables with so many functional variables that are easily hidden if not pointed out...

Buy using WWW.ESCROW.COM & NEVER PayPal!

With escrow you agree on the terms - inspection period, etc- you send verified funds to the escrow company, they let the seller know to send the unit per verified/traceable/insured carrier, you get it and have the week or two you agreed on to inspect it and have it checked out. You will most probably want to take it somewhere unless you are knowledgeable, and to have someone align the arm/cartridge etc. THAT IS IMPORTANT as most of you will probably not have the alignment protractors, etc to align the cartridge as well as to appropriately set the cartridge loading mass (and NO, less is NOT always better!).

After verifying that it works properly and that all can be aligned (after all, they may have had the arm installed by someone else who wasn't qualified and it is just ever so out of spec making alignment a real, well they won't like the proper word here!), you notify the escrow company and they release the funds. If its not satisfactory, you notify the escrow company and send it back via UPS or FedEx and once received, the escrow company gives you back your money.

Both parties are EQUALLY protected!!!!! Negotiate splitting the fee as both win. I have never had a reputable dealer refuse this, although you might have to explain to them how it works and send them to escrow.coms website for their tutorial and FAQs.

If they refuse, its a crap shoot and I would consider other options.

But just understand that there will be assorted costs with buying used, and they may make that great deal a little less so. So get estimates for the inspection and alignment first - and bid or buy smart. And remember, you should have these additional costs for a new unit.

[dragonfyr]

Regarding a new table such as the MH with an included cartridge, you will be fine. Actually, except for all of us telling you about the BluePoints, Shures (check out J&R Music World for the best price), etc., you wouldn't know any better!

Buy the turntable first!!!!!!! Not a cartridge! You will have plenty of time to explore that latter! After all, each has its own character. Its like me advising you to buy a $400 bottle of wine to buy the same price cartridge. And unless you explore this area and listen to them, I think that advice, regardless of their rep, is 'bad' advice. After all, as nice as the Shure is, I have heard plenty better. And I personally lament that the Signets aren't still around. But I have always tended toward the Blue Points as well for a MC cartridge. Again, we are debating wines, and not the basic turntable upon which you can experiment latter!

Focus on the turntable. And be aware of the associated reasonable expected costs that you will encounter in obtaining and inspecting/setting up a used table. And with a used table, despite what is said (yeah, has anyone seen a used TT that was advertised with more then 10 hours n the cartridge? Are all the sellers so stupid as to run out, buy a $300 cartridge and suddenly decide they want another TT? Yeah right! And after you buy that, come back here! I have some lovely beachfront property on Mars I will give you a good deal on!)

[rplace]

Great food for thought on the new vs. used. It does seem a lot more prone to hidden problems then other types of gear. If I buy new online do I still have to take it some where to be "set up". If that is the case then I pretty much should by from a local dealer or learn how to set it up myself...probably don't want to teach myself that on a 500 dollar item.

Thanks for the info!