All this is confusing!!!

[seventeenmonkeys]

I don't understand the differences between the different products klipsch offers for home audio? What's the main difference between lets say the synergy series and the reference series and the rest of them.

Also i would like to know if going for a complete microsystem like the synergy 6 (well that's the only one since the quintets look too much like my promedias and wouldn't want that) or getting the speakers individually will make a big difference. are the speakers and sub in that system inferior to the rest of the products in real life (because specs are just numbers i do not understand).

[Mystery Guest]

Ahhhhhh....someone else like me. I don't quite understand all the specs either. I just know what I like.

------------------

The token female for the Klipsch Fan Club Tour 2001

[Colin]

There is no comparison between the Synergy models I have heard in the dealer's rooms and the Reference ones. Of course the Synergy models sound good. And so do the Reference speakers.

All of the music is there with the S models, as it is with the R ones. But the R models seem to be able to provide the sound without effort. While the lower models work at producing the music, the Reference ones seem to be able to handle it all in stride. Bass is a bit better defined, but what I really noticed was that the treble, especially the cymbals seemed better.

On lower cost speakers, the high end often gets mashed together into a hissing or sizzling sound we recognize it as cymbals, but that is not really what they sound like. There is also better separation of the notes with the Reference speakers I have heard.

The slight differences in the specs are objective attempts to put a visual number on something only your ear can see. 48 HZ is better than 50 Hz, for example. You might describe the lower number as "better bass, more control, warmer sounding, stronger etc." But it is still just a number.

The irony of audio is that many high-end speakers with great "specs" do not sound great with out unique pieces of front-end equipment. The curvaceous B&W 800 series models are as solid as Italian marble, with great specs. But they really need a monster amp, like Krell amps the size of a small Toyota engine, to control them and sound great.

At the other extreme, giant horns like the huge Klipsch Khorn, with its classic corner placement, are said to have poor specs. Instead of the monster amps that powerful and solid cone speakers need, these large and empty horns sound best with polite and petite amps as delicate as a lace doily.

The Reference series is just that a standard at which point other speakers can be compared. It is Klipsch state of the art line at the price point of the average American consumer.

On these models everything is a little better. The larger horn makes a difference, the lower cross-over point makes a difference, the larger woofers make a difference, the greater weight makes a difference, the slightly greater sensitivity and higher power handling makes a difference too.

Yet while all these differences do not add up to a walloping contrast between the two, they do add up to a better speaker with longer lasting appreciation. I could foresee a Synergy owner trading up to the Reference series, but I think that a Reference owner will only add more Reference speakers to his system.

When Klipsch BBS members read of unhappy Synergy owner, they are likely to recommend trading up to a better series. But when they hear of an unhappy Reference series owner, they are more likely to recommend changing or tweaking something with the system, because it is unlikely to be the speakers that are at fault. Instead, the front electronics may not be as good as they should be (speakers often outshine the expensive gadgets at the front of the sonic chain), or the placement may not be as optimum as could be.

This is not to say that Reference series is perfect; it is merely one of the better sedan models of the family home entertainment line - it doesn't compete with the esoteric race car models (like the Khorn) that professional drivers use on the audio track.

For the difference in price, I would buy the best speakers that you can afford the speaker end of the stereo is where you get the most bang for your buck buy the best that you can get.

------------------

Cornwalls, Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours, Dynaco II, Rotel, KSW200 & LF10

[T2K]

Colin has given us the best example of an opinion that I have ever seen.And I disagree.

IMO,the Reference speakers(that I have demoed)are too bright.I much prefer the Legends.

Of course we are both speaking of the particular speakers in each line that we have personally demoed.To base our opinions of an entire line on a select few speakers that we have personally demoed in that line would be unfair.A more speaker specific question is in order,me thinks.

Keith

[TBrennan]

The RF-7 looks like cost-cutting engineering by the Hoosier bean-counters. Compared to the KLF-30 it elimnates the cost of the midrange horn and driver and replaces 2-12s with 2-10s. This speaker is not based on the principles espoused by PWK, principles that are timeless and once produced great loudspeakers. I don't take this company's products very seriously anymore, they've let the really good product become unavailable and I seriously doubt the Jubilee will ever be introduced.

[RogerG]

Colin is right on the money. IMO the Reference series are some of the best affordable speakers Klipsch has made to date. I have noticed much "Reference bashing" by owners of Legend series speakers who insist Legends are superior. I very much disagree. Two years ago when I bought RF-3's, I had an extensive in-home demo of KLF-30's vs. RF-3's. I found the References to be superior in tonal balance, to have MUCH better imaging, more detail, better driver integration, better bass articulation, to be less "shouty" and more refined treble. I found the KLF 30's to be WAY brighter than the RF-3's. All my friends thought so too. As for cost cutting, three of the screws on the woofers of the KLF's were half loose, I actually pulled the driver for a look-see, and was surprised that the magnet was so small for such a large woofer. Not to mention the cheap stamped steel basket. Look at an RF-3 driver: the magnet is twice as big and it has a much more substantial basket. And it's only an 8" woofer. The cast aluminum RF-7 woofer makes a Legend woofer look like a toy. Also, NO internal bracing on the KLF's, just a big empty box. Compare crossovers, the Reference series is much more refined-you can just tell by looking at both. It is obvious cost cutting engineering went into the KLF series just by the glued cabinets that many people have complained about falling apart. The seam on the back panel of the Reference line is totally different. No wonder you see Legends for sale online for less than half of their original MSRP. I believe Klipsch is trying to redeem itself and live up to its name by releasing superior products compared to the competition in the same price range. The Reference line is their first step toward that goal. BTW, the Jubilee is a two-way design just like the original Klipschhorn.

[TBrennan]

RogerC---That you like the RF-7 is a wonderful thing but is just ain't much of a horn speaker. Khorns used stamped frame woofers too, they were pretty good speakers. When PWK ran the company he made products that appealed to no-holds-barred hornys and his best could stand with any competition--the Iconics, Magnificents, Paragons, Hartsfields, Imperials and Patricians. The RF-7 isn't even an attempt to play in the horn Big Leagues and is inferior to many products the company made in the past, the idea of running cone woofers past 2000 cycles probably would have made the old man flash his famous yellow "bullshit" button. Refining and improving the KLFs would have been PWK's style. The company has no product at all today that serious hornys are interested in save some products in the pro line, indeed the pro line looks very interesting and perhaps the Heritage line will come back. The Jubilee is hardly "just" like the original Khorn and in any case I'd be very surprised if the Hoosier bean counters allow the speaker into production. They've been hemming and hawing with the thing longer than it took for Hilliard's team to totally develop the Shearer from scratch back in the 1930s.:-) I'd love to see the company get back in the forefront of serious horn speakers but I have my doubts and the direction the company is taking is alarming to me.

[seventeenmonkeys]

ok, so i see that it is a general opinion that the reference series is better than the dynergy series but i would also like to know if getting the synergy 6 microsystem is a good choice. but then again if the reference series is better than the synergy series then how can the synergy 6 which is composed of the cheaper speakers of the synergy series be any good compared to the reference series?

But is the synergy 6 be a good buy at the price stated or am i missing a lot by not getting something more expensive? (keeping in mind that i do not have the expertise that most of you guys do)