Questions about setting SW12-II for best results

[Slugbait]

Yeah, it's the older SW12-II with front-fire driver and rear-fire passive radiator, not the current KSW-12. It is connected via the RCA sub-out on the receiver to both RCA inputs on the sub (y-cable).

System is a Sony V333ES, DefTech BP UIW for the mains, Klipsch KV2 center, and Boston CR6 for the rears. The sub activates seismograph readers, but I'd like a bit more "punch" as opposed to "rumble".

The DefTechs have incredible bass for their size, and I've usually used a speaker size of "large" on the receiver. However, I assume for maximum sub configuration, I need to set the size to "small" (which I've done).

The receiver manual suggests that I set the cutoff frequency as high as possible (LFE high cut)...it was 120 Hz default, I set it to the max of 200. The rest of the speakers are still set to 120 Hz crossover frequency. Now I assume that I just need to properly adjust the sub itself...if any of the above could be improved upon before proceeding, I'd appreciate suggestions.

1) I'm certain all speakers cables are connected for proper phase...however, there is a Phase dial on the sub ranging from 45 to 180 degrees (since I can turn it down well below 45, I assume it has a "zero"). It's not an "on-off switch", so I don't know what the best setting is...all the way up, all the way down, or middle...?

2) There is a lowpass filter dial ranging from 40-120 Hz. With the above receiver settings, what would be a recommended setting for this dial?

3) I have heard that I should crank up the Level (volume) at the sub, and then adjust the sub level from the receiver...is this actually good advice, or what?

If you've read this far, you deserve a prize...thanks for any help or suggestions you could give.

[soundog]

I have an SW-II, that I switch on when watching movies with my THX system. If your mains have as good bass as you say, Id leave them set to large. Id set my center and surrounds (assuming they are smaller, to small). If you can, cut off at around 60- 80 Hz., above that gets directional. If yourre managing the bass at the receiver you can turn the bass control above that setting on the sub or just open it full. Play with the variable phasing to get the best bass at your seating position (have someone slowly vary it while listening to deep bass). The SWII produces good sound effects and is fairly good musically. You may or may not wish to shut it off when listening to music in stereo. There is no right answer to - this moving the sub around will produce different results (corners usually boost base; some rooms have standing wave acoustical problems which require treatment, etc). Experiment, experiment, experiment with placement and settings until you get what is best (which may be different for movies and music). Good luck!

HT-1 Klipsch Heritage System (music oriented)

Klipschorns w/ ALK crossover upgrades

4 Klipsch LaScalas (surround & rears)

Heresy components in custom cabinet /monitor stand (center)

Panasonic 32 Monitor W/ component video input

3 Sony CX400 CD changers

Sony CX-240 CD Changer

MSB Technology Digital Director w/ jitter reduction

Nirvis DXS digital controller (auto selection of whatever changer is playing)

Nirvis Slink-e computer interface

Nirvis jukebox software (downloads net cd info, album covers& lyrics- programs & controls changers searchable for songs, artists, albums).

Nirvis CDJ (CD Jukebox Software)

Monster 5000 Power Center

Sony Viao Laptop Computer

Sony S530D DVD Player

Sony 798HF VCR

Sony XA1ES CD player

Sherwood HX-PRO dual cassette deck

Dynaco PAS4 stereo preamp W/ Tesla Tube upgrades (also outputs to HT2)

Technics SL3300 DD Turntable w/ Shure cartridges

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver (Dynaco inputs directly to amp section)

Perpetual Technologies P1A Digital Correction Engine (jitter reduction, 16 to 24 bit conversion, future speaker frequency correction, and room acoustic correction )

Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC ( plus 44.1k to 96k CD upsampling)

Klipsch KSW-15 sub (for DVD LFEs )

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Phillips Pronto TS2000 Programmable Remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 computerized lighting controls

Radio Shack Wireless Remote Control Extender

Cables: Onix , MSB, Monster, AR., Iced Purple, RS Gold

Monster Bi-wire speaker cables.(Khorns)

HT#2 Klipsch THX System (movie oriented)

4 Klipsch KT-LCR THX Speakers

4 Klipsch RS-3s (side & rear surround)

2 Klipsch KT-DS THX Surrounds

10 Linaem Tweeters

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver (Dynaco inputs directly to amp section)

Monster 3000 Power Center

Sony X111 ES CD Player

Sony 775HF VCR

Sony STR-G3 (supplemental amplification for extra speakers)

Toshiba 61 High Definition TV

Sony NS700 Progressive Scan DVD

Toshiba 4205 DVD/ CD Changer

Klipsch SW-12II Sub

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Sony AV2100 remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 Computerized Lighting

Vibrapods (vibration isolation)

RS Gold , Monster, Iced Purple, AR Cables

[Mikekid]

I have had my sw12II for quite a few years now. I sure LIKE it. When I first unboxed this thing, I did exactly as soundog suggested...EXPERIMENT. I wound up setting the lowpass to 50Hz and phase at 0. The volume level is at 5, and the bass knob on the reciever is one click past center.

I have ChorusII mains, Academy center, and kg1.5 surrounds all set to large. It is sitting between the entertainment center and the left Chorus. It's really going to take quite a bit of goofing around with this till it sounds right to YOU.

Let us know how it goes.......

Take care

Mike

[Guest BobG]

Allowing the sub to run too high in frequency will not add punch but it will make a hollow/chesty sound and will allow you to more easily locate the position of the sub which is not desirable. Definitely stay below 100 Hz and don't be afraid to try <60 Hz.

Placement makes more difference with a sub than with any other speaker. There can be peaks and dips in the response which are +/- 12 dB based on the position of the sub and your listening position. This SWAMPS all other adjustments. Set the sub for some medium settings then move it all over the place till you find the sound you desire. Then you can dial it in more precisely with the controls on the sub.

The phase switch is to allow the bass that reaches you from the sub, to be "in sync" with the bass coming form your other speakers. If not, they can cancel and reduce the total amount of bass or make a mess of bass smoothness. It is quite subtle most of the time. Try the two extreme positions and use the one which produces maximum bass impact.

Remember, the Most bass is not always the Best bass. Corner placement will yield the Most bass.

[bacevedo]

BobG,

How do you guys feel about putting a sub in a niche in a media wall cutout? I am getting ready to build a niche, with an alcove that is 20" tall, by 20" wide and 28" deep. I currently have a KSW 12 - will that just kill the bass or make it too boomy? What about putting an RSW 12 (or 10 if the 12 is too big for that niche) in that space?

As for it's location, it would be at the front of the room, on the same plane as the front speakers (RB5), but directly below the right speaker. It would be directly on the floor (carpet).

Thanks for any info you could give me.

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Thanks,

Bryan

"... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater"

Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603)

Denon AVR 3802 RCVR

Denon DVM 1800 DVD

JVC 3600U SVHS VCR

RCA DirecTV

Klipsch RB5 - L&R

Klipsch RC3 - Center

Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds

Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!)

Monster Power Conditioner

Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects

Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

[TheEAR]

I would not put any sub in any niche,a great place is along a wall.You should experiment in the positions where the sub does not obstruct anything or does not get in the way.

Since I have a KSW12,I will tell you this it performs best along a wall.Not in a corner.Corner loading only works well for sealed subs with very inert cabinets.

The Sunfires,REL Q200E can be placed in a corner or niche and there is no boominess.WHY? These subs use very small and rigid cabinets and are sealed.So there is no tuby or boomy sound.

The Klipsch KSW12 while not boomy(boomy if cut too high) if set up well(cut no higher then 80Hz,and placed along side a wall)will give good results.And did I say any new speaker,sub needs a break in period.Say 100-200 hours so the suspension is optimal.

All mu subs sounded better after a good break in.

My subs are...

Klipsch KSW12(great value)

Sunfire Junior(the smallest REAL sub!)

Sunfire Mark II(tiny MONSTER)

Sunfire Signature(13" cube supersub)

Revel B15(Velodyne HGS killer,you bet your HGS)

AerialAcoustics SW12(SVS Ultra like! Yes siree)

On the way...

SVS Ultra(heard one pair,majestic subs)

Klipsch RSW15(better be great)

Velodyne HGS18(just for kicks,why not its king of low)

Just so you know the Klipsch RSW series subs active/passive,you have a radiator on the back.The sub needs room.Again along side a wall it should perform.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[oogins]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheEAR:

Sunfire Junior(the smallest REAL sub!)

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Hey EAR, tell me more about this sub. Just how small is it?

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-Paul

AMD T-Bird 900

Asus A7V

Micron 256 MB PC-133

IBM 30 GB 7200 rpm ATA 100

Pioneer DVD-105 Slot-Load (16X/40X)

3Dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP

Hercules Gamesurround Fortissimo II

NEC MultiSync M700 17" (soon to be Sony G400 19")

Razor Boomslang 2000 w/Everglide Giganta

These speakers are for my computer, not a HT

Receiver: Kenwood VR-409 (soon to be Denon AVR-2802)

Speakers: Klipsch Quintets (5 sats. + center)

Sub: Sony SA-W305 mini-sub (soon to be HSU Research VTF-2 or Paradigm PW-2200)

[TheEAR]

Glad you ask oogins

The Sunfire subs are very underrated,they are amazing true subs in tiny cube cabinets.Bob Carver is a a pioneer in the audio world.

The Sunfire Junior is a 9" CUBE! YES 9" cubed!

Imagine this this sub is about the same size as the Labtec Pulse 424 bass module!The comparison end HERE.

When you pick the Junior up it weighs about 30lbs!The weight is is the active driver.The magnetic structure is HUGE for a 8" driver(more like 6").

Now you must wonder DOES IT PERFORM?

LOL

Does it ever!This minute cube has solid bass response down to 25Hz!And can fill a mid sized room with REAL bass.To top it all there is no trace of boominess,no nasty colorations.The bass is clean and tight!

All I can say is if you have very high quality monitor speakers this little wonder is for you.

I have the Dunaudio Contour 1.1's matched with the Junior,its a combination that will shock you.The quality and quantity is all there.

Of course this is no Revel B15,HGS18 or Ultra much less a Krell Master Reference sub.

Still nothing is even close in this price range and size.

If you want to fill a mid-to large room with bass then the Sunfire Mark II is a great alternative.11" CUBE,weighs about 50lbs and has a MASSIVE 10" driver with a 30lbs(at least) magnetic structure.This mini monster can make you sick from too much bass!

And if you want the most powerful minisub in the world,one that can come close to the HGS15 and Revel the Signature is your answer.This is a 13" CUBE with a monster 12" active driver.

The Mark II and Signature have drivers capable of 2.5" peak to peak excursions!This is massive.

TheEAR(s) Now theears