eq_shadimar Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Ok so I took the plunge and purchased the Kenwood VSR-N8100 digial amp. I have read about the new breed of digital receivers all over the web so I thought I would give one of these little suckers a try. It is a 6.1 100WPC amp that will also connect to a home network to stream video, photos, and music files from a PC. This unit uses the TI digital amps and is supposed to sound very nice. I will be using it for my front projection system hooked to 6 Heresys. I will post back here once it is all hooked up and I have had some run time on it. If you want to read more about it goto http://www.kenwoodnetwork.com Front and Remote Rear Connections Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Looks interesting. I only see speaker outputs for two channels though, unless those connectors that look like phone jacks are meant for the surround and center chanels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I don't think it will have enough nuts, personally. Let us know how it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 10:19:24 PM timbley wrote: Looks interesting. I only see speaker outputs for two channels though, unless those connectors that look like phone jacks are meant for the surround and center chanels. ---------------- Yeah that is one of the problem with this class of amp. They are really meant to fit into the "modern" living room with a flat panel display and smaller speakers so they try and keep them as small and as slim as possible. They are not really made with the "I need to use 4 gauge wire for my speakers" guy. This is one of the few amps that even has the binding posts instead of spring clips for the front mains. The other connections are a custom type of connector that will accept up to 18 gauge wire. I am planning on making pigtails out to binding posts. Additionally there are pre-amp outs for the rear channels so you could put a different amp there as well. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 10:57:20 PM wstrickland1 wrote: I don't think it will have enough nuts, personally. Let us know how it performs. ---------------- Humm I am driving my Cornwall mains in my other 5.1 setup with a 35 watt per channel tube amp and it is plenty loud. You don't think 100 watts per channel will be enough to drive the Heresys? Or do you not think it will actually put out that type of power? Not trying to be an a$$, this is my first purchase of one of these digital amps so I don't quite know what to expect. I have heard the Teac 3 channel unit on some KHorns and it was great. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I'm not knocking the unit, but I have to wonder how accurate that power rating is. I don't think it is rated across the full spectrum, but probably @ 1 khz. I am very curious as to how it will really perform, and probably because I am a 00 awg wire guy . Bottom line, if you like it, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Well you could always read the specs on how they measured the power before making assumptions... 100w x 2 (DIN/IEC, 6 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, .7%THD) The THD is a bit high, but so tube amps are also way worse. I've heard that digital amp distortion isn't as bad as SS amps so that rating isn't so bad when put into perspective. Into 8 ohms you're looking at about 75 watts per channel, which is still plenty to drive heresies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cueman Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 9:58:13 AM eq_shadimar wrote: Humm I am driving my Cornwall mains in my other 5.1 setup with a 35 watt per channel tube amp and it is plenty loud. You don't think 100 watts per channel will be enough to drive the Heresys? Or do you not think it will actually put out that type of power? Not trying to be an a$$, this is my first purchase of one of these digital amps so I don't quite know what to expect. I have heard the Teac 3 channel unit on some KHorns and it was great. Laters, Jeff ---------------- I just wanted to say I like your sig line. It will be 10 years next month you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 10:28:18 AM wstrickland1 wrote: I'm not knocking the unit, but I have to wonder how accurate that power rating is. I don't think it is rated across the full spectrum, but probably @ 1 khz. I am very curious as to how it will really perform, and probably because I am a 00 awg wire guy . Bottom line, if you like it, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. ---------------- Ah all good points I will not have a chance to finish hooking it up until this weekend but I will make sure to post back here with the results. I will see if I can find any more specs on it. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Here is a press release containing some more information http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/KenwoodVRS-N8100receiver.php The lab results of a Panasonic unit that uses the same TI PurePath amps http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/PanasonicSA-XR70lab.pdf So it looks like Dr. Who was right about the 75 WPC figure. It looks to have a nice flat frequency response. The proof is in the pudding as they say so I will report back here after some listening time. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Beware blind devotion to specs. Comparing Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) for solid-state, digital and tube amplifiers is like comparing apple and blueberry pies. THD is a complete pie, but the ingredients are very different. THD includes both odd and even order harmonic distortion. At first taste, any distortion in a pie seems harsh. Until you realize the pies of natural acoustic instruments are thick with distortions. Many acoustic instruments create lots of even-order distortion. Tube amplifiers produce more (total) harmonic distortion, but the type they produce is referred to as even order distortion, and is not as harsh-sounding as the odd order distortion transistors produce. Large amounts of even-order distortion (as high as 1-2%) produces little listening fatigue, and can even be relatively pleasant. Electric guitar players favor tube amps for this very reason. On the other hand, small amounts of odd-order distortion (less than .5%) are audible, even by untrained ears, and make music harder to enjoy. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/tubeprimer.html Vacuum-tube amplifiers differ from transistor and operational amplifiers because they can be operated in the overload region without adding objectionable distortion. So where 2%THD in a digital or solid-state amplifier might be bad, it could actually be a very good thing in a tube amplifier. Also beware that power requirements for fantastically sensitive (100dB/w/m) big ole horns are quite different than the cone loudspeakers the audio industry speaks about. Big ole horns require only about 6-9 watts to reproduce fast music peaks at louder than conversation levels in a typical room. Your typical cone speaker needs hundreds of watts to reproduce the same peaks without the harsh distortion of clipping. Even at the loudest sound that you would realistically audition any speaker system (95-100dB), the amplifier is only delivering a watt or so to the horn system at peaks. Most of the time the amp is idling at 100's of milliwatts; yes, I said milliwatts. At this level many high power solid state amps have real problems with crossover distortion. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/whyhorns.htm So tube amplifiers are not worse: they are simply different. The Kenwood review is merely a sales puff piece. The Panasonic digital receiver distortion at 1 watt is .03%. 75 watts per channel is probably way more than you actually need to drive big ole horns in a real world setting. Worse though, it is that it cant drive low impedance loudspeakers, meaning that bass control may be poor typical so far, of what I have heard as the only short coming of tri-path amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Colin I certainly understand and agree with everything you have said. As I stated this is very much an experiment for me into the world of digital amps. At a cost of $200 I figured it was worth the risk. I will be able to compare this unit to several different amps from vintage tubes, 70's SS, 1990's SS, and 2000's SS so it should be interesting to say the least. Findings on other boards say that the distortion is on similar harmonics as tube amps and that is why the sound is so close. Again I have no solid test or listening results to back this up yet. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Well so far not doing so good. The subwoofer output is kaput Other than that I am enjoying the sound. I am still in the burn in process but this is a powerful clean sounding receiver so far. Very impressive for a unit that weighs about 17Lbs. More to come........ Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 Well p00p. I have had to send the unit in for repair to fix the subwoofer issue so my full review will have to wait. ETA about 4 weeks! Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I bought the Panasonic SAXR70 about 4 months ago. I have all synergy speakers (system in profile) with a RW10. I am totally pleased with it so far. I would have gotten a higher grade receiver, but at the time my old one crapped out on me, I wasn't looking to spend too much $$$ on a new one. You should be pleased with the Kenwood. After you get it fixed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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