mind helping me with room treatment/configurations for my 2 channel setup?

[No Disc]

Try posting a wanted for RoomTunes on Audiogon. Here they are new for $225. I can't imagine a larger bang-for-the-buck room enhancement. I used the Michael Green RoomTunes before moving to the 8th Nerve adapt line.

In such a small room, it will make a huge difference IMHO.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1124542256

No Disc

[DrWho]

oops, double post

[DrWho]

One thing about compressing insulation to make a bass trap and all that: the width of the trap is more important than how compressed you get it. In fact, compressing the insulation is probably worse because it starts to act like a hard surface (which will just increase reflections). There is probably some happy medium where compressing (increasing the density) becomes optimal for low frequencies.

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On 7/7/2005 8:25:14 PM tofu wrote:

yup, i've contacted him about roompack pricing. if his product is as good as everyone on the forums make it out to be, i should be in for quite a treat if i decide to buy it. although what he says about the "new product" that is coming out does sound rather interesting. he claims it made his 13x10 or so room sound comparable to $100k studios. then again, it's probably way out of my price range.

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No offense, I bet a lot of these treatments are exhibiting more placebo effect than anything else. Like you said yourself, you're dropping $100 on triangle pillows so you would be humiliated if you there weren't any sonic improvements. Basically you are put into a state where you want to hear the difference, which means you are going to hear a difference even if there wasn't one (it's the psychology of the matter). The descriptions for all these products also just shows that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about...I hate it when people use big words and aren't even using them correctly:

"horn loading" effects of the corner? Perhaps he's referring to a pressure zone or pressure build-up due to many reflections occuring near each other...a horn is an acoustical impedance matcher. And how the heck does a panel affect the "harmonic structure" of music? Is it going to be introducing new harmonics? I certainly wouldn't want that. How was it decided which harmonics are good and bad? Or how bout "The Corners should elegantly straddle the corner area so that sound pressure can build behind the unit." So where does the pressure go when the music stops? You can't just continuously build up air pressure behind a panel.

"Seams treat signal smearing due to laminar flow by controlling acoustic energy traveling along wall surfaces"

First off, any sound travelling down the wall surface isn't going to be reaching your ears so there's no need to worry about it at all. Signal smearing? The only thing I can think of that can be referred to as signal smearing is comb-filtering effects or time delay issues...not something sound moving down the wall is going to do. Btw, laminar flow is the opposite of turbulent flow...I don't see how we're ever going to get a smooth flow of air along the wall with a non-constant acoustic source. And again, I don't see why this would be an issue even if it even did occur.

I suppose in a totally bare room that something is better than nothing, which is probably why some people hear benefits. Maybe if they posted solid specs rather than this mumbo jumbo crap then I'd be more interested in the product. The fact that they sell expensive cables and all that just further loses credibility in my books.

Anyways, here's some links that way you don't have to worry about me being the source:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html -(My favorite)

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/industryfeatures.html

http://physics.mtsu.edu/~wmr/reverb_1.htm

http://www.acoustics101.com

Btw, no offense to anybody that has purchased the product and heard improvements...though I probably won't totally agree with what you hear (heck, nobody even agrees about what they hear in a speaker or in the music itself), I wouldn't mind seeing some before and after measurements to get an idea of what the product is really doing. I'm also not trying to say that the products would be completely useless either (as I may be coming across that way).

[DrWho]

I forgot to mention...you can build your own panels and if you want, build them very similar to what you're looking at, but for way cheaper. There's this stuff called Roxul which is a type of insulation which has extremely good acoustical properties (there's even specs online that rate its performance). Michael Hurd is the guy to go to for more info on it; perhaps he'll even chime in sometime. I personally don't have any links or the information on it.

[tofu]

first off, i've carefully read over each reply and you've all been a big help. thank you.

dr.who does have a valid point about these pillows, and i will take that into consideration. but on the other hand, nodisc has used these pillows before with good results, so i'm kind of being pulled from both ends.

now, after looking at the diagram dr.who posted, his solution does seem rather inexpensive and simple to make now that i can visualize it. and yes, i can stuff insulation behind them as well if that will improve performance. i don't have a magical equation to calculate optimal sizes and humps, so i suppose i'll just use the three dimensions listed in the picture. my question is, are these mainly utilized as bass traps, or do they have any kind of hf diffusion/absorbtion properties as well?

assuming thse perform well when randomly placed around the room's walls, i can probably have the best of both worlds by combining nodisc's solution and dr.who's.

nodisc, those roomtune packs look strikingly simillar.. no.. actually the same as eigthnerve's response line. what is the difference between the two? eithnerve's seems to actually be double the price. i did read comments on their forum about it being a blatant ripoff (meaning the roomtunes came first), but i didn't look into it much.

as for pulling my speakers out from the corners 6" to a foot, i suppose that is doable. i'll try that later tonight along with centering my sub.

thanks again.

[tofu]

after looking at that picture again, drwho, i noticed that those things are supposed to be

4' x 8' large! wow. that's goign to be quite the interesting piece of "decor".

i suppose i'd put one on my back wall and left wall (if viewing the room from the diagram i made)

it wouldn't be doable on the other wall.

so i guess two of those suckers is all i can fit in this room unless i completely cover the walls, then i may be able to squeeze four to six. dr. boner (quite the name this fellow has) suggests that 5% - 10% of the room be covered. well wow, with those dimensions he must be talking about one hell of a large room to need a bunch of them to cover 5-10%.

[scriven]

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On 7/8/2005 2:11:12 PM tofu wrote:

... are these mainly utilized as bass traps, or do they have any kind of hf diffusion/absorbtion properties as well?

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Yes, they are bass traps and hf diffusers.

[No Disc]

The RoomTunes were the first available product, and have been around for some time. I think 8th Nerve copied the concept and used their own materials. I've seen both and they are both very similar from an outside appearance.

I don't know what is in the Roomtunes product, but the response line is some sort of loose fibreglass with a silvery reflective backing. The outer material is a course mesh type of burlap which I userstand is important to the design. Certainly you could make these on your own.

I think either will be equallly as effective. I have not done a side-by-side comparision of the 8th nerve vs. the Roomtunes as I evaluated them on different dates. Since the Roomtunes is slightly cheaper, I'd go with that as long as they offer 30-day MBG.

No Disc

[tofu]

hi colin,

i moved my speaker out exactly one foot from the each of corners (back/front). i can't honestly say i notice much of a difference, but it does make the room look "neater" somewhat, so i'll leave it this way. i didn't give it much of a listen though, as i was more interested in quenching my thirst from reorganizing the furniture in the other room. i'll spend more time listening in an hour or so.

thanks