tofu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 hi, above is a rough sketch of the room. please don't laugh as you can see, it's rather small with less than optimal size ratios. the room is 11'x11' with nothing more than carpeted floors. i'm going to be looking into making/purchasing some room treatments. i can't really fit bass traps in the corner near my entrance door, as there isnt much space there and i wouldn't be able to get the door open without moving the bass trap every time someone enters/exits. so basically, i would only be able to fit 3 corner basstraps in the room. as for putting bass traps behind the speakers, that would be putting the speakers even closer to my listening position, but if you think it would offer much improvement, i'll give it a shot. my budget isn't infinite, so spending in the $1000's isn't really an option. i was planning on constructing DIY basstrap tubes i found somewhere on the net which consisted of animal wire, 6" insulation, and five discs to support the tube. as for other treatments, such as foam padding or diffusers, i'm not exactly sure where in the room i'd place those for most efficiency. i'm also wondering if my speaker positioning looks optimal to you. they're almost touching the walls as you can see (only about 2 inches between each corner and the wall in reality), and are toe'd in to aim directly at the center of my room. i tried to push them as far back and as far away from eachother as possible to make up for my room constraints. i'd prefer not to place any kind of treatments in the center of the wall behind the speakers. i'm going to be watching movies (in two channel) from a projector here, and unless i get some kind of pull down screen, it's not going to work out too well for me. thanks for reading my thread. -chris edit: i've built risers that are 6-3/4" for the la scalas. someone on the forum suggested i do so, and it did make a pleasing difference. thank you to him as well. i'm sure you know who you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 My suggestion is to head over to the audio circles and to the 8th Nerve forum. Nathan can give you advice. I have their new Adept line and it works well. They offer a 30 day MBG. http://audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=47&sid=9c2be245276eee3b2a9d5fbc34bf8172 No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 thanks for the suggestion, but after looking at their prices for the adept line, treating the corners with rectangles/triangles alone would cost me $1000 + shipping. in their gallery they also have horizontal rectangles placed along the top of the room, which are another $150 each. that's a bit too rich for my blood edit: their minimal size is quite attractive though. for arguments sake, if i went with them, i'd definitely be able to treat the corner near my door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 You can still consider the response line. Cheaper and you can still mix and match with other brand bass traps and such. No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 those response "pillows" don't seem too bad price wise. although it's going to be a bit hard keeping a straight face paying $100 for four small triangular pillows, i guess i can bite. i can't seem the find the price of their room pack though. it's supposed to come with two echoes, four triangles, and four of those horizontal pillows (seams). if i go with the response line, it looks like i'll be purchasing those anyway, so i may as well buy it in a "pack" as it will probably be a bit cheaper. thanks. and i'm still open to other suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 You could always build some curved masonite panels...they go very well at first-order reflection points and also work like bass traps when you put them in corners. The best part is they cost like $20 per panel to build. If you can't find masonite, it's the same stuff as hardboard or if you have to, you can use "peg board" which is the same material and then fill in the space behind the panel with insulation. To build the panel all you really have to do is bend it so that you get a nice curve. To get an idea, a 4 foot panel should be bent to around 6-12" (varying your panels around the room is never a bad thing either). The more curved you make it, the more dispersion you get...but more curved also limits your LF effect as well. In general, these panels only work down into the 60Hz region at best when in the corner so they aren't super mega bass traps (though they work better with insulation behind them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 dr.who, that design seems to be simillar to the DIY basstraps i described in my first post, except instead of the masonite, i'd be using 6" non faced insulation, and compressing it about 3 inches or so, which supposedly helps with its "bass trapping" abilities. they're also going to be wrapped in polyester batting (as per the instructions) to absorb some high frequencies, and have "flimsy plastic" wrapped around half of the cylinder (i guess to reflect hf back). the only thing is, these are going to be like 14-16" in diameter. the instructions also state that they should have space between them and the wall (2 inches or so). nodisc's suggestion for those response pillows really attracts me because of its size. when you're in a 11x11 room, size is everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Nathan can certainly tell you why it works to treat the room corners (nodes) as their called. All I can tell you is the net effect is very positive. Read some of the responses of the customers who have installed them, that will give you an idea of how effective they are. As far as I know the room pack is still available, again, contact nathan. No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 8:17:47 PM No Disc wrote: Nathan can certainly tell you why it works to treat the room corners (nodes) as their called. All I can tell you is the net effect is very positive. Read some of the responses of the customers who have installed them, that will give you an idea of how effective they are. As far as I know the room pack is still available, again, contact nathan. No Disc ---------------- yup, i've contacted him about roompack pricing. if his product is as good as everyone on the forums make it out to be, i should be in for quite a treat if i decide to buy it. although what he says about the "new product" that is coming out does sound rather interesting. he claims it made his 13x10 or so room sound comparable to $100k studios. then again, it's probably way out of my price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 LaScalas in an 11' X 11' room!? Ouch!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Suggestion ..?? EAR PLUG"S >>> sorry .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 One problem with using any amounts of absorbtion in your room is that you already don't have any good reverb (aka your RT60 most likely sucks). Adding absorbtion is just going to deaden the sound even further. In a small room diffusion really is the way to go because it will really liven things up. Btw, a 16" tube trap will only work on frequencies down to about 106Hz provided it was mounted near a hard surface (ie the wall or corner). The curved masonite panels will take up slightly less space, be effective with slightly lower frequencies and they can actually make the room look bigger. Dramatic lighting (like artto uses) makes the effect even cooler. But more importantly, curved masonite panels are way cheaper Anyways, just thought I'd put in my little plug...you can't go wrong for well under $100 for a totally treated room. This is the article out of the Dope From Hope...it's also something PWK liked as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytubepower Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 So you place one of those in the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 One nice thing about the Michael Greens Roomtunes or 8th Nerve solutions, is that they don't attempt to achieve their benifit from absorption, the panels that face the room are reflective. No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 edit: i've built risers that are 6-3/4" for the la scalas. someone on the forum suggested i do so, and it did make a pleasing difference. thank you to him as well. i'm sure you know who you are Could you tell me more about this? What's it good for? How did you build them? Thanks! (I'll have a look at the ups & mods section in the meantime) Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I took 2 x 4s and cut them so I could make a 2 foot by 2 foot square and then braced the inside with two or three 2 x 4s and then put a 2 foot by 2 foot 3/4 inch thick piece of plywood on top and put my La Scalas on top. You can then by more plywood sections and slide them under to raise the La Sclals up higher to see what hight you like best. Once you find the hight you think the sound is the best then you can make a nice pair of risers. Mine are very crude but work. I can work alot so I have not made a nice pair yet but I will. Give it a try for me and Tofu helped tame the highs. Now don't expect a huge night and day difference but it will help. A lot of other things can help also. Xman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I'm just a poor boy, from a poor family but in such a small room, it seems as if the primary problem will be endless reflections from the nearby side and back (behind listener) walls. Seems like things to catch the reflections on those walls would work best: bookshelves, RealTrap panels and clothe wall hangings. This follows the cliché about making the front of the room live and the back dead. Also, space being as precious as a home in Japan, I would still try pulling the LaScala away from the corners, 6 inches to a foot. This changes the area of reflection, but also increases the soundstage and depth of the image. PS. Since the sub plays bass above 40Hz, it should be located closer to the center. This will balance the bass more in line with what the sound engineer wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Timmikid I just noticed you have Herieses so this type of riser would not really help your speakers. Before La Scalas I had KLF 20s which had the mid and tweeter horns at ear level. So when I got the La SCalas the horns were aimed at my chest. So I heard the highs more so than the mids that is why I built the risers. In your case you need to sit on your couch, listen chair, etc and measure from the ground to just above your eyes. Then subtract the hight of the Herieses and either find something in your house that is about that hight to put the Herieses on or build a basic pair of riser and see if you like the sound. The easiest thing is to find something in your house. I used wooden crates for my herieses for about ten years and then bought the KLF 20s. This is a small crate I made for my SB3s. Xman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Being the lazy #%$#%, I have not changed my profile. I have acquired two industrial LS (now with the K33 woofer and BEC networks inside) and two industrial heresy's (original). The LS are hooked up to my main 2-channel system. The ind. heresy's are now hooked up to my terrace/bedroom system (crappy cd player, Scott 272). The walnut heresy's are temp. out of work. I promiss to update my profile soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Tofu, According to your diagram you will probably get a kink in your neck sooner or later by letting your head hang over the couch like that. Seriously.... Maybe check around online and find out what is used as filler in those absorbtion pillows and corner traps (maybe fiberglass or stuffing of some sort). If you or your significant other sew go to a fabric store and pick out some good looking fabric to match and make your own. I have a rug from a Home Depot hanging on the wall and it helps tremendously. That 11'x11' room should be plenty big enough to work with. I also liked what Colin had to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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