Arman Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi all, Sorry that I keep bothering you with these trivial sub questions...but I have too much time on my hands, HAHA. Anyhow, I noticed that the current position of my sub yields very weak bass when I am near the center of the room, as opposed to further up against the opposite wall and corners of the room. I can see the sub working, and hear some low notes - but I don't feel it really...by scooting back maybe 1 1/2 - 2 feet, a world of difference is made (The bass becomes very loud and strong). My room is supposed to be 14' x 14', however, there is a closet that was built into my room as opposed to into the wall. The measurements of the closet do not add up (40" x 32"). The closet is to the immediate left of my viewing/listening position (with a foot of space or so). The bass feels robust in this viewing spot, however, it is much stronger when I scoot 2 - 3' over near the corner... What suggestions do you guys have? I'd like to sit much closer to the TV (1.5x the distance instead of 2x) - but the bass is so damn weak at my ideal spot. I could just move the TV up, right? Haha. I have included an image! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 how old is the rsw 15? I ask this because I originally had the rsw-12 decided to get the 15, had to order it dealer let me hold on to the 12 until the 15 came in. after about a month of using the 12, 150 hrs or so the 15 showed up and I exchanged them. The 15 seemed to have alot less "power" than the 12. now that the 15 has about the same amount of time on it has it really broken in. It has taken me that long also to fiddle with it and find a placement option that I am happy with. With minimal harmonic problems. Someone told me to turn the sub around, I didnt want to do it but finally tried it. My room is very small 11x13 or so. Right now it sits inside my right forteII which is in the corner toed in. A room as small as mine does not imo require corner loading with the 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Travisc, speaker break-in is a myth. A sound you hear from it the first time you use it will sound EXACTLY the same after 150 hrs of use. There are several threads here that explain why. I dont understand how you can possibly think that the rsw-12 sounded more powerful than the 15, they sounded like night and day to me. The stats behind them also strongly support that the rsw-15 is alot more subwoofer than the 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Try playing with the phase switch, that's what it's there for. I won't comment on the speaker break-in "myth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 ---------------- On 7/13/2005 9:54:03 AM Zealot125 wrote: Travisc, speaker break-in is a myth. A sound you hear from it the first time you use it will sound EXACTLY the same after 150 hrs of use. There are several threads here that explain why. I dont understand how you can possibly think that the rsw-12 sounded more powerful than the 15, they sounded like night and day to me. The stats behind them also strongly support that the rsw-15 is alot more subwoofer than the 12. ---------------- just posting my .02. Actually there was a post a month or so ago with a link stating that breakin was a myth on everything except maybe subwoofers. I spent some time looking for it but cannot find it. Something about the surrounds loosening up. Reagardless reading something then actualy experiencing it are two totaly different things. There may be things at work here that distorted my opinion other than a breakin time. But I still feel that subwoofer sounds better and better the longer Ive been using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why do you say "myth"? I understand what you are saying, but even for a low frequency sound, the cone will move back and forth thousands of times in the first seconds you play a note on it. Therefore, the surrounds will loosen more within the first few seconds of listening then they will within the following few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 lol, this is a classic textbook example of room modes and quite frankly there isn't anything you can do without changing the acoustics in your room. What's happening is the sound coming out of your subwoofer is loud and strong, but it's reflecting off the walls and cancelling itself out in the middle of the room. Adjusting the phase might help, but only in the small crossover region between your sub and mains...out of that range changing the phase will have no effect at all. (so if you're crossing over at 80Hz, phase will give you some "EQ" in the 60-100Hz region). Your absolute best option would be to put bass traps in every corner where the bass is loud (#3 positions in your picture). I would also bring your sub out of the corner and put a bass trap behind it as well. I would also suggest getting your sub inside the L speaker more towards the center (you can swing your mains out wider when you do this too, which will widen your soundstage). Getting the sub a bit out of the corner will help it to excite less room modes...you lose a little bit in LF extension but that RSW-15 is more than capable in your small room so it'll be all around a good move. Your last option would be to move the sub up real close to your listening position...perhaps move the couch forward and put the sub behind it. What this will do is increase the relative direct sound versus the reflected sound...so that any destructive interference will have a smaller magnitude of change. The downside is that the bass is coming from behind you, but a lot of people don't even notice it. Having the couch right there will make you feel surrounded by the sound (and you get a lot of shake factor too from the air vibrating the couch). http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=31101&TempID=1&departmentid=0 Going with the bigger kits (like http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_id/104622/src=00631) will end up costing you the same per trap. Btw, they're 2 feet tall and I wouldn't recommend going any shorter than 4 feet (stacking at least 2...the higher you go, the lower notes the trap will be effective with). If you were trying to save as much money as possible, I would recommend treating the #3 positions closer to the couch (you can ignore that other corner on the other side of your closet). If you put traps in your front corners, just be sure you don't have any active drivers firing straight into them (the RSW-15 is rear-firing so you'd have to move it out...which is another reason I suggested moving it closer to the middle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 RE: DRWHO comments: Ditto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arman Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wow!!! I appreciate all the helpful information! I am really interested in picking up the bass traps - they are so much cheaper than I previously thought. Is the $239 price for 8 of them? The problem with 2 of the #3 spots is that doors open into those corners...the 2 corners on the viewing position wall have doors. Will this be a problem? My amp comes in tomorrow - so I will test out some movies and music and if I am still unsatisfied, I will order the bass traps. THANKS GUYS (DrWho is my hero) -Arman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 You can pretty much put the bass traps wherever you have bass buildup (like you've been noticing in your corners). If I may try to get you out of the 2D world, you could also try installing the basstraps in the corner between the rear wall and the cieling (yes, horizonatlly up above your head). But before you go through all the trouble I would stand on a chair to see if there is buildup there as well. In my last room which was somewhat of a similar scenario, I got extremely good results by treating the trihedral corners above the mains (the corner where the front wall, side wall and cieling meet). This may prove to be a more feasible option considering that you have rear firing ports and a rear firing subwoofer. Btw, here's another configuration you might look into if you're going to be treating those corners: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_id/107048 ($350) It costs a bit more but you get a lot more with it too...it comes with enough stuff to treat 4 corners. Here are some pics of it in action: http://www.auralex.com/bass_traps_atom12/bass_traps_atom12.asp It's basically a 12"x12" cube surrounded by 3 LENRD bass traps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 While I'm at it, here is another kit you might look into: http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=31106($700) In addition to the bass traps, this package includes some diffusion and absorbtion panels which would help to clean up the mids and highs. I would suggest putting the diffusors (white panels) on the cieling (perhaps some right above you and other a little further forward where the speakers would bounce off the cieling towards you). Then put the absorbtion at the side wall early reflection points and then spread a good portion out on the wall behind you. At some point though you need to decide when you've put enough into your room's acoustics. I plan on finishing college here in a bit and after that I will be moving out and getting my own place and all that shnazz so I've spent no money on room acoustics because it's not something I can really take with me. On top of that, my parents wouldn't have it because treatments start to look tacky real fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuclearay Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 One trick I remember reading is to put the sub in you listening position then find the spot in the room where the bass is the loudest. Once you find that spot, then put the sub there. That is certainly the cheapest solution (and since you have time on your hands). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesfan70 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 ---------------- On 7/14/2005 5:57:06 PM nuclearay wrote: One trick I remember reading is to put the sub in you listening position then find the spot in the room where the bass is the loudest. Once you find that spot, then put the sub there. That is certainly the cheapest solution (and since you have time on your hands). ---------------- I was going to say the samething, but I assumed he might have already done it. You feel kinda awkward and stupid crawling around on the floor while your sub is in the sweet spot, but it sure does work. Just try doing it before the mrs gets home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arman Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Hahaha...you guys crack me up (WAF jokes and such). Anyhow, I'm not married...I'm 20...marriage is far far away in my eyes. Yeah, I already tried the viewing spot location - no dice - haha. The spots that were nice and strong were impractical...soooooo. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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