jacksonbart Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ---------------- On 7/27/2005 1:47:18 PM seti wrote: ---------------- On 7/27/2005 11:28:52 AM Audiokid wrote: Nothing has a better effect on the sound of a system than a nice glass of wine! ---------------- Preach it brother My favorite tweak "the mind" ---------------- Would you be interested in wine colored speaker wire? Should improve the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ---------------- On 7/27/2005 1:04:39 PM DeanG wrote: My good friend PWK says, "BULLSH!T". ---------------- Hey, Dean, ask PWK why he patented the "Little Bastard" but not the La Scala the next time you talk to him... I got alot more questions for him, too! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Regarding COLIN's comments. Yes, bi-wiring (with 2 wires of the same gauge) will decrease the series resistance in the cable. A single cable of two gauges larger (16 ga to 14 ga) will do the same thing. And yes, series resistance could conceivably be a small problem when using a tube amp due to its output impedance. However when it comes to bi-wiring, I think folks have this "model" that the electrons from one wire are "acting" seperately. No, the wires are electrically tied together at the output of the amp and again at the input to the speaker cabinet. They are not electrically isolated. I think the confusion arises because folks get confused due some ultrasonic effects that can occur (but not appreciably at audio frequencies). I belabor the point because I beleive that manufacturers are contributing to the confusion as a deliberate marketing and money making strategy. I am all for folks improving their stereos. However, the efforts should be directed at placement of the speakers and chairs and some relatively simple (or more elaborate) acoustic modifications to their listening rooms. This will make a difference! -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlipsDude Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I didnt even think of that, HF for tube and LF for SS. Ill have to remember that! seems would give the bass where the tubes lack for sure. biwire - often wonder about it, seems every thing I read, it's like a 50/50 with people saying yes and no. I plan to try it. yea, when i got my RF-7's they did try to sell me $250.00 10ft biwire cable and made it sound like it has to have it, but they started adding all the other things of the spade and banana connections for the cable at $45.00 each and i had to tell them forget the cables and connects, was gettin too much to handle, they insisted and i had to protest, i hate that when they do that. they told me the speaker price would change if i didnt, i had to get my Dad to help me, but he looks stern and firm and they didnt try it when he was by me. same thing when i bought a car, they wouldnt budge but when i brought my dad, then they were willin to work with me, it sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I hate that kind of treatment, but there might be as much profit in the cable sas there are in the loudspeakers, so they have to make it sound essential. Me? I just bundled the two together. Period. Bi-wring does not send the output from the amplifier to the same place that may be why some say it can work. I believe that in some crossovers with bi-wring capability divide the incoming signal between the upper and lower sections of the crossover, so the input does not effectively go to the same output. At least they should. Otherwise, you are merely doubling the cable, which BTW, might also have as much effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Here's an idea... If there is a real difference, it should be relatively easy to measure the transfer functions and also the Nyquist response (as this provides COMPLETE reactance mapping in several domains - and much more!), of the cables, the cables and speakers as a total load, as well as the acoustic output of the speakers - impulse response, group delay, frequency response, and an entire slew of other post processed information for comparison. It should be relatively easy to look at the relationships and to quantify or qualify the relationships. This fall might be a good time to make these measurements (assuming we can find all of this esoteric paraphenalia) along with shooting the Heritage line and Reference models (again, it is just a matter of assembling them or doing them piecemeal. (This would also make it easy to plug various units into EASE for room modelling and prediction of the various room treatments, speaker placements, etc. etc. etc. that are available.) Now I realize that most don't put any stock in that fisiks stuff, but you never know! We might come dangerously close to learning something! Of course such information may take all the fun out of the discussion, but hey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 If the scientific measurements don't confirm, it wouldn't make any difference to the true believers. Magic trumps science, feeling trumps reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 "My good friend PWK says, "BULLSH!T"." - DeanG ______________________________________________ Dean's right - PWK says so himself in a few of his old Dope From Hope papers. Well, he doesn't actually say "bullsh!t," but he does say that you shouldn't do it. -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Words taken out of context are merely letters on a page, even if they are PWKs gold-plated wisdom. Mr. Klipsch was referring to the need for high current carrying cables for his extremely efficient big ole horns. He was not referring to stiff cones with thick rubber surrounds, low and wild impedance curves and low efficiency loudspeakers. The right set of cables, with the right amplifier and the right speaker might create a dip at the crossover frequency. This dip might be audible. Too many variables to say 100% for certain without objective measurements and subjective tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Colin, The author of this thread (Raptorman) isn't talking about biwiring speakers with "stiff cones with thick rubber surrounds, low and wild impedance curves and low efficiency." He's talking about biwiring a pair of Khorns. And PWK, as per his Dope From Hope, didn't go for that idea with respect to Khorns. There's nothing taken out of context there. Regards, -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 It depends on the crossover, stock - no; ALK-A yes. PWK was right in that the stock crossover isn't really a good candidate. However, upgraded crossovers made with an eye towards the bi-wire capability are better candidates, of course. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 All I am saying is that before we dismiss the idea out of hand, just because the god of horns, PWK, said it was BS, it that we should be aware that he was speaking in the context of big ole horns. This was before the modern days of long throw, stiff Kevlar cones with thick rubber surrounds, low and wild impedance curves and low efficiency loudspeakers. The second study mentioned above finds that the right (wrong?) set of cables, with the right/wrong amplifier, the right/wrong crossover and the right/wrong speakers might create a dip at the crossover frequency. This dip might be audible. Too many variables to say 100% for certain without objective measurements AND subjective tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Oh, boy. My first post on a controversial topic. BTW, how does everyone here feel about synthetic oil? OK, just kidding. Dunno about biwiring. Biamping, on the other hand, is freakin' great. I just got my Khorns set up last night and they are wonderful. Homebrew preamp through a behringer dcx2496 then on to a pair of homebrew 300B monoblocks for high and a homebrew SS for low frequencies. When I finish my ST-70 clone, I'll sub that in for the SS or try tri-amping, but for now- Wow. Frequency response was corrected using a calibrated microphone and a frequency analyzer. That of course, is the drawback. If you use two pairs of amps, you have to correct hi/low frequency due to different driver outputs. But it's worth it. Cheers, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Here's another current thread on the topic of biwiring over in the Technical Questions forum: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=68770&sessionID={3F45ED31-9864-4485-B8B1-9F093F7626A9} The author's inquiring as to his personal RB15s and RC25, but there are several postings with respect to individual opinions about biwiring in general. Makes for an entertaining read. -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Oh...welcome to the forum Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 "My good friend PWK says, "BULLSH!T"." - DeanG ______________________________________________ Dean's right - PWK says so himself in a few of his old Dope From Hope papers. Well, he doesn't actually say "bullsh!t," but he does say that you shouldn't do it. -H2G ************************************************************ Well, if the gentleman who signed my Khorns say "you shoudn't do it". I guess I shouldn't then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.