edwinr Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 ---------------- On 7/31/2005 11:20:05 AM Coytee wrote: I'm starting a rumor that SE-OTL's will fix that phenomena... oops, you didn't want to hear that huh? ---------------- That's the problem with SE-OTL's - you wouldn't be able to hear that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Well Dee - My ear has always told me that there are pluses and minuses with good quality SS or tube. That is exactly the reason I have both setups for the same speakers downstairs. There are just some passages on various recordings that sound less natural with one or the other. The more intricate loud passage seems crisper on my SS and a piano solo sounds best on my tubes - your experiences may differ. All is in my ear's opinion - I just haven't found Nirvana yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Henry, Yeh, I definitely enjoy piano solos on tubes. Very good. What kind of tracks do you find best on SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 If you like piano solos on tubes and don't mind a little jazz, find some Gene Harris albums. One SACD I particularly like is "Listen Here." Another GREAT SACD with some very nice piano is Thelonious Monk's "Straight, No Chaser." The piano on these recordings sound about as real as any I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 ---------------- On 8/1/2005 8:42:17 AM Daddy Dee wrote: Henry, Yeh, I definitely enjoy piano solos on tubes. Very good. What kind of tracks do you find best on SS? ---------------- Interestingly enough I prefer a well mixed and well recorded to medium (either vinyl or CD) complex classic orchestra through SS. In these cases I seem to always find more of the soul capturing detail I get at a live performance. I catch myself turning my head toward a specific instrument because it catches my attention. It is a bit like your favorite movie - there is always a small surprise everytime you listen. The same happens with most complex arrangements (if recorded well) - some of the Jean Luc Ponty stuff, Patrick Moraz, etc. - and with some of the more interesting synthesized stuff - ELP, etc. Of couse - it is my ear's opinion only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Dee, I know the CD, the song, and your classic Klipsch corner Khorns, since I visited your Arkansas gathering in May 2004. Are you asking this because you are experimenting with the $35 Sonic Impact 5066 integrated class-T digital amplifier? I know this wonderful little amplifier too, since I really auditioned it on my Khorns. Over the years, I have noticed a few areas where tube amplifiers are different than solid-state ones. Imaging, bass, mid-range and treble are different. In your situation, the general observations are influenced by the very wide and flat frequency response of the Khorns, along with their wide dispersion. I believe, that tube amplifiers in general do as good or better job of imaging than even the best solid-state amplifiers. But they soften and round out the bass and treble. On solid-state, low and high instruments play with equal weight alongside the singer. The bass is tighter; quicker, more solid, a little more thunk than bloom. The treble is crisp, ringing, sometimes too bright. Yet we notice this and it adds to the sonic events of the music. Tube amplifiers dont emphasis the bass and the treble like this. The bass is warm, boomy. Cymbals gleem, but they are not crisp. On most speakers with tube amplifiers, the bass and the treble are subdued, behind the Girl from Ipanema. In addition to awesome efficiency, which gives even refurbished vintage integrated tube amplifiers more headroom and power, the mighty Khorn casts an incredibly wide soundstage. Instruments are literally separated from each other, playing across a wide stage. There is room around the instruments. You can notice their location. This allows you to pay attention to them. You notice how the tube amplifier makes them sound different than a solid-state one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 The frequency response is every bit as 'linear' as any other kind of amplifier. Mark, Mark, dude, buddy, say you didnt infer that tube amplifiers driving speakers have linear frequency response. I dont have a bench. I have only the Klipsch BBS, EnjoyTheMusic.com and other stereo magazines and web sites. But I have seen graphs showing the frequency response of a tube amplifier driving a steady state, nominal bench 8-ohm load; and I have seen graphs of them driving a real world speaker. When the speaker has real world impedance curves that have sharp angles or dips down low, many modest tube amplifiers do not have the impedance control to overpower the speaker. The combined frequency response takes on the characteristics of the speaker impedance curve. Viewed together, the frequency response of a tube amplifier driving an actual speaker load is not the linear frequency response of either one measured separately on a bench. The combined frequency response is not as 'linear' as solid-state amplifiers. We hear this in the bass, where the tubes sound warm and bloomy, or where solid-state sounds hard and solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Shadda known you would ask me that wheres the proof - I will see if I can find them, think I saw them in Stereophile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I don't attribute the "in-the-way" noise and somewhat irritating quality of snare brushes to the amp regardless of the topology used. I always regarded snare brushing as something to give the drummer something to do in the quiet parts (you know drummers!). I don't particularily like snare brushes anyway, I think that the real culprit is one or more of the following: 1) recording quality 2) tweeter quality (including crossover) 3) room Also, a snare being brushed is more like "fill" noise, and if that's what you end up hearing, at what point is it "real" sounding "noise"? Perhaps we just have a problem with how close it was mic'd, etc. If everything else sounds good, then.... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 ---------------- On 8/2/2005 8:03:34 AM mdeneen wrote: "Anyway, when this track comes on, and the drummer is stirring the brushes on the snares, she says, "What is that?" Actually I'd wondered the same thing for a moment and then recognized what it was and thought also, it didn't sound right." ============ I'm trying to figure out what it is that doesn't sound right about it? Is it harsh? muddy? indistinct? If I read your post right, it seems you never noticed this "wrongness" until you plugged into tubes, but have not gone back to an SS unit to specifically compare, correct? Someone suggested tube amps are 'equalizers' with some uneven frequency response. I've never had a tube amplifier circuit on my bench in 30 years that had any such characteristic at all. The frequency response is every bit as 'linear' as any other kind of amplifier. The distortion products are different for a typical tube amp than for a typical SS amp, but that's got nothing to do with 'equalizers', or frequency response linearity. I've never noticed this sound you refer to, but I;m going to listen for it. mdeneen ---------------- Mark, Yeh, I really need to listen to this on SS and see if I hear a difference. In addition to hearing this "wrongness" first on tubes, it was also first on Klipsch Heritage. So the issue could be, I'd suppose, a revealing of the source. If I can get the bandwidth to listen to this again, I'll see if I can describe the sound. Thanks for your take here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I remember when I did my first "serious" listening on Heritage. I was listening to a clarinet solo, and I kept hearing this really annoying "clicking" sound. It was really driving me crazy. I finally discovered it was the mechanical part of the clarinet that was the culprit. I had never heard it on previous speakers. For good or bad, Heritage is very revealing! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.