Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 OK. I have had this insatiable urge lately to build something, anything, that makes some sound. I have never built anything like this before, and have minimal woodworking skills, but I have ready access to someone who has had 30+years of woodworking experience and is willing to help. I was just wondering if building a subwoofer is an ok place to start my endeavors. I understand tat they are probably more expensive and complicated to build, because they need an amplifier. I have always though that it is better to jump in right away, and then learn to swim rather than get in gradually, so that is why I want to try to build a subwoofer. I understand that careful planning must go into designing a subwoofer, and even though this is meant to be a learing experience, I would love for the finished product to be something that will be of use to me in years to come. I have been looking at some drivers, and have heard a great many things about the Dayton Titanic mkIII. I was wondering if anyone would give me pointers to some designs. Also, what does anyone think about the suggested project ideas on partsexpress.com? Is this do-able? Where should I be looking for a sub amplifier? What materials or modeling programs will I need? If in fact building a sub is most likely beyond me, then where is a good place to start learning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Actually, I think that subwoofers are the most forgiving of speaker projects. The Titanic is a good subwoofer driver, but the Shiva and the Tumult might be better alternatives since you're going to be building your own box. As far as amplification goes, I like the partsexpress 1000W amp if you're going to build the amp into the box. However, since you're making your subwoofer from scratch, you can also look into making the box passive, and running high-level signal from a pro-type amp in the rack. As far as materials go, I'd use 1" MDF for all sides, and maybe 2 layers for the baffle. But before you go to cut wood, you should decide on what type of enclosure you want to build: - Sealed - Ported - Passive Radiator (a noiseless variation of ported) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 first subwoofers are the easiest of speakers to build since any shape will do since subwoofer hertz are below the sizze of most enclosures. I forgot the exact terms but if the sound hertz becomes the same size as the enclosure you get a jump in that particular range in terms of decibals. It is do-able, infact I am completing mine and the sub is yet to be on sale. (shakes fist at adire) but anyways there are a couple things. First that dayton titanic is a good start but that should not limit you. Try other speakers like Ascendant Audio, Adire Audio, RE Audio, etc etc. Did you order a free copy of partsexpress? www.partsexpress.com will give you a big catalog full of the stuff needed to build speakers. Being subs need an amplifier you have really two choices: internal or external. I chose external as I have more total space when moved out. Plus I amp going to use a qsc professional amp since most internal subwoofer amps do not meet my criteria. But there are fine internal amp that can supply 1200 rms amps. The shape of the sub is totally how you like it. Normally though there is a saying. There is not replacement for displacement. Meaning the bigger the box the lower it can go. Though that does not mean the louder it can go. Try using a free program like win-isd. Get the alpha version. Plus it is free to boot, try googling it. BTW you can use cylinder subwoofers like www.svsubwoofers.com does. But you need to find a place that sells concrete pour mix. Materials. Unless you friend knows how to build out of aluminum or concrete, then your kinda stuck to two kinds of wood. MDF or void free plywood. Usually the plywood is 7 ply or 11 ply baltic birch. MDF is medium density fiberboard. its like sawdust and glue formed into sheets making it very heavy since it is not porous and it has not grain making it easier to machine. It is much more cheaper but it does happen to tear out if using screws. (glue is usually stronger then the material itself use titebond) Plywood is about double the price but does not tear out. There are usually three types of subs: Sealed (meaning there is no port) thus making it airtight to a degree. It happens to have the cleanest and quickest of bass. But doesn't go as loud as ported or passive radiator. Ported harder to make and model. By adding a properly tuned tube of some sort one can happen to tune the box to where they would prefer it. but after the sub hits the port tuning frequency there is not much left. (i.e port is tuned to 40 hertz, under 40 will be much less in decibal to above 40) passive radiator basically a speaker without the motor. It is weighted to give a proper tuning frequency. Cost much more then either previous. Though has attributes to ports but without having to deal with the tube and the fact that some subs cannot be ported since some subwoofers require more then 10 feet of tubing to reach a certain frequency. There is one more type. The blose type, enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ---------------- On 8/3/2005 8:59:37 AM meuge wrote: Actually, I think that subwoofers are the most forgiving of speaker projects. The Titanic is a good subwoofer driver, but the Shiva and the Tumult might be better alternatives since you're going to be building your own box. ---------------- The Tumult is not out yet and is rather an expensive subwoofer since they start at 600 i believe and end at 800. Plus they are not out yet (Shakes fist to adire as I need 2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 For good priced drivers look at Ascendantaudio. They are in the middle of retooling for their new drivers but may still have some for sale. If you have the proper space you can build an IB subwoofer and not have to worry about cabinet size, porting(or not) etc. http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Due to money constraints, I think that I will be going with either the Dayton Titanic MKIII or the Adire Shiva, or perhaps the Ascendant Avalanche, all the 15" versions. What are advantages/disadvantages/experiences with each? I am torn between the sealed and ported enclosure, but I feel that if the sub can hit about 27-30 hz with authority, even with a fairly steep roll off lower than that, then it will be an immense success. Or am I asking too much of these drivers? I want this sub to be a good all around performer for music and for movies. Im going to research the difference between sealed and ported some more, anyone feel free to give opinions, impressions experiences, numbers, statistics, and comparisons between thee drivers and the enclosures!! I need all that good stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 download winisd goto www.diysubwoofers.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Im at work now, so when I get home ill give it a go, do some modeling, and post my results. Are there any tips or tricks to this program, or is it pretty straightforward and easy to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 winisd is pretty straight forward. Also now that i read my comment again, diysubwoofers.org is a separate website to ive information. winisd can be googled to be found. it is rather easy, just put the parameters in the program, state and so forth. there is even detailed intructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intotubes Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I built my subwoofer. I used a driver (now discontinued) from Madisound. The spec sheet listed the recommended enclosure size, both for ported and sealed, for a couple different res. freq. Most drivers from Madisound have this information. I used sonotube - which is a form used to pour concrete pilings. I found it at an industrial supply house in Denver. Most any big city should have a place to sell you sonotube. I think even a lumber yard will order it for you. I used 24" diameter with 1-1/2" thick plywood endcaps. I put the driver, port, and terminals in the bottom. I poly'd the wood top & bottom. The wife made a tube out of some material that I slid over the outside before I mounted the top and bottom. I put 3 or 4" long legs on the bottom. The material looks like speaker grill. It looks very nice and kind of looks like an end table. Yes, it's huge but it looks tasteful (to me) and the WAF is not bad. It goes LOW. I am using a separate amp to power it. I highly recommend sonotube. It is suprisingly strong for it's thickness because it's a cylinder. You can feel no vibration when placing your hand on the side. Very easy to make and calculate volume. Good luck. -Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ---------------- On 8/3/2005 10:06:42 AM Zealot125 wrote: Due to money constraints, I think that I will be going with either the Dayton Titanic MKIII or the Adire Shiva, or perhaps the Ascendant Avalanche, all the 15" versions. What are advantages/disadvantages/experiences with each? ---------------- Shiva has the smallest output capacity and cheaper construction than the others, but it's retail price will reflect that. It's pretty good efficiency (ie: doesn't require a huge amplifier) but requires a relative large enclosure. I've been on vacation... so I'm not aware if they have begun shipping them yet?? Avalanche has a good output capacity and very nice construction especially for it's price. It's has very good efficiency (ie: doesn't require a huge amplifier) but requires a HUGE enclosure... so much so I wouldn't recommend it for a box subwoofer. It's more of an Infinite Baffle driver. The MKIII has good output capacity and a nice construction. It's less efficient than the others but it also requires the smallest enclosure of the three you listed. Please note that it will still be quite big compared to most "bought" units... but it'll also outperform them for less money. I would also add Acoustic Elegance's AE Speakers AV15 to your list. It highly resembles the MKIII in performance and construction. It would still get my vote for performance / cost compromise. The Tumult (although out of your price range) has good output capacity and a nice construction. Problem is it's VERY inefficient and requires a huge amp to achieve it's potential... but it does benefit from requiring a very small enclosure (much smaller than the MKIII). Hope it helps... Rob PS: If you have an existing old amp hanging around, you can use it temporarily, until you get yourself a more powerfull one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Wow thats great info, I do like to looks and price of that driver as well! Efficiency wise, if I were to go with this AE driver, should I go with a BASH amp on partsexpress or should i get one of the Class G amps on partsexpress? Is 250 watts enough to drive this to acceptable levels? I dont want to buy more amplifier than I need. I know everyone is going to laugh at me, but the actual use for this sub is going to be an add on to my Promedia Ultra 5.1 using the SWS link. Therefore, this sub isnt going to have to have huge output levels by itself, because I am running it as a second subwoofer (less distortion, a bit more punch and overall output is my goal). I would really like to design the cabinet so the PMU sub can sit atop it due to space constraints. Who knows, if I like the direction this sub will take my PMU's in, then maybe Ill get some RSX's for it sometime in the future. Also, you may ask why not go with something less expensive if you are going to put iit with your PMU's, but the answer is because I will probably hook it up to something else in the future, and I want it to perform well. Also, if it is going to need more powere to perform by itself later on, then I can always buy a new more powerful amp for it. Again, this is primarily a learning experience, so I decided what the heck, if I am going to have an extra sub lying around, may as well hook it up to something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ---------------- On 8/3/2005 1:53:18 PM Zealot125 wrote: Efficiency wise, if I were to go with this AE driver, should I go with a BASH amp on partsexpress or should i get one of the Class G amps on partsexpress? Is 250 watts enough to drive this to acceptable levels? I dont want to buy more amplifier than I need. ...you may ask why not go with something less expensive if you are going to put iit with your PMU's, but the answer is because I will probably hook it up to something else in the future, and I want it to perform well. Also, if it is going to need more powere to perform by itself later on, then I can always buy a new more powerful amp for it. ---------------- I'd recommend 500W or more it's easier to blow a driver by clipping an amp than overpowering it. Overkill for promedia... but why buy the amp twice if you will need it in the future? Pro amps are less expensive and better built than plate amps, like Behringer EP1500 at 250$ but you have to live with the fan noise. A used HIFI amp/receiver or a plate amp may give you less power, but be quieter. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Even though this will be a learning experience, the difference between making a sub you will keep for 10 years, versus something that will be in the trash a year from now, is almost negligible financially. I would say go for a Titanic 15", with the 1000W PE amp (it needs it) in a large, sealed enclosure (24-24" cube). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 All of this sounds good to me, and I would love to model it, but I am having difficulties entering correct data for the MKIII and the other drivers it says something about inconsistencies. If anyone has successfully and accurately modeled these drivers, an upload of the .wdr file(s) would be greatly appreciated for any/all of these drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Here's a design for you: This is a sealed Titanic III 15" in a 20x25x20 enclosure, using 1" MDF. The -6dB is at 27Hz and -10dB is at 20Hz. With some PEQ and a 1000W amp you should be able to improve that significantly. The file is here: TitanicIII_15_122Lbox_20x25x20.WID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Wouldnt putting a port in that significantly increase low end response? Is a ported enclosure too advanced for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I like sealed subs. They are very clean and fast-sounding. If I ever make another sub, I'll add a passive radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 I dont mean to be insolent, but you didnt really answer either of my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Heres what I got for a ported enclosure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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