hunt4 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I currently own a pair of 81 La Scalas......... I plan on acquiring 5 heresy speakers for my center, sides, and back. This will complete my home stereo system for awhile. I'm curious to know if I could by heresy parts and make a custom center channel speaker/box? I want to use 2 mids and1 sub. Is it okay to run 2 mids from the crossover? Will I miss the tweeter? Can I also put 1 mid to the tweeter and the other mid to the midrange? Is this even a good idea? This is going to take a long time to put together and I want my center to be the best it can. I would greatly appreciate all imput. thanks again hunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 you want to look up member jmalotkey in Wisconsin. He has a center system that is two Heresy boxes on the floor for low end, and a custom wedge box built into the ceiling with LS horns. It's beautiful sounding and looks cool to. It would blend seamlessly with your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 hunt4, I dont think even if the k-55v could handle hf of 9khz and up that you should put such demands on it, these guy's know far more than me, but there is a reason PWK used the k-77 and I would stick to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I eventually plan to build a custom center Heresy. My thoughts are nothing like yours. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with two mids. What is your goal here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Interesting , You Lika The Hereseys No ? " Let me introduce you to some of my little Heresy Friends . " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 jwcullison, I am happy that a gentleman with the skill and resources to build speakers saw this post. I have a few k-22's kicking around and once my spring loaded k-55's are replaced in my Cornwall I will be well on my way to having the parts for a diy heresy project myself. any thoughts on dimensions of cabinets or any thoughts why two would not be a good idea for the time being are most welcome. Because this room is so small I cannot use these as surrounds Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I have made several different sketches for different ideas. I haven't decided which to do yet. It depends on what you are wanting. For instance....what fronts do you want to "match" with. Mine are Cornscalas. I thought it would be nice to have a K401 integrated into a modified heresy. Somewhat of a Herescala. You know, one cabinet but with a top section for the mid and tweet. You could use a standard heresy xo design. The "crossings" would be the same but now with the advantage of a bigger/nicer midhorn to match the Cornscalas. I have space limitations in which the La scala, Cornwall, or Cornscala won't work There are other possibilities as well...taking it to another level. Say using two k22's and bringing the dB of the low end higher to possibly match the higher dB of the fronts. Investigating a "push pull" configuration in a bass bin that is the same internal volume of a standard heresy right now. This would make the low end the same but bring up the low end dB. Sounds way out there but so have some other of my projects so far. Now, I hace two center channels right now which are 2 RC-35's. I'm thinking the duplication may be a compromise because of the "interference" of the drivers. Long debate could start with this I know. The most simple thing for me to do is just put one heresy for the center...but that is no fun[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 SunburnKitty, I love the Black heresy. Most prefer the veneer look but not me. Very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I forgot to mention this idea. You could remove the back of one heresy and make a new back. Put a cutout on the new back to place a second K22. Hook the two woofers "out of phase". Now you haven't messed up your existing heresy. Set the second heresy aside for safe keeping in case you want to put it back to spec. This would raise your dB of the low end and keep the "sound" the same. You however would have to make xo adjustments to less attenuate the mid and tweet (if higher dB is what you want). This may cause the overall impedance to change a little. I can easily be blasted by djk or Dean on this as I am not as savy on the electronic portion of the idea. But hey...I if I don't stick my neck out...I can't learn. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 jw thanks for the replies, I will use this as a reference when the time comes. FrzninVT and I replaced the caps and wiring in my speakers this morning. Ordered 2 4uf thetas for the cornwall and one of them had both leads broken on it, so I will have to wait until new theta arrives from parts express to finish the job. Heresy have 4 2uf kimbers in them and so far so good. Thanks for the ideas my thoughts are along the lines of herescala as well with one twelve and the upper section of a lascala. well all in good time, really enjoy seeing your work, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunt4 Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 First of all thank ya'll so much for the much needed response. I could very well keep the center heresy in tacked. Of course this wouldn't be a lot of fun. I would rather attempt to have an original 1 of a kind center channel speaker. There are a lot of ideas going through my little brain right now. Finding a lascala horn would be great, but it seems after looking for about 6 months the only thing out there are heresy parts (for the most part). Space is somewhat limited and to make my own box would be optimal. Maching my lascalas might be hard but it is surely worth a shot. I was thinking of having a mid-tweeter-mid and the woffer to be faceing up. My other idea was to have mid-tweeter-woffer-tweeter-mid all faceing the front. While i need to have 2 crossovers or should it hold up to the test? I only use my home audio for movies. Thanks again everyone. Sunbuenwilly I'll take your heresys off your hands. lol..... They look great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Sorry Hunt , they are in use . We do seem to live closeby however . Where you at ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 First of all thank ya'll so much for the much needed response. I could very well keep the center heresy in tacked. Of course this wouldn't be a lot of fun. I would rather attempt to have an original 1 of a kind center channel speaker. There are a lot of ideas going through my little brain right now. Finding a lascala horn would be great, but it seems after looking for about 6 months the only thing out there are heresy parts (for the most part). Space is somewhat limited and to make my own box would be optimal. Maching my lascalas might be hard but it is surely worth a shot. I was thinking of having a mid-tweeter-mid and the woffer to be faceing up. My other idea was to have mid-tweeter-woffer-tweeter-mid all faceing the front. While i need to have 2 crossovers or should it hold up to the test? I only use my home audio for movies. Thanks again everyone. Sunbuenwilly I'll take your heresys off your hands. lol..... They look great Adding more drivers than is needed increases comb-filtering affects and narrows the dispersion pattern of the speaker...which is the opposite of what you would want to do with a center channel speaker. Were you planning on doing a vertical MTM arrangement or a horizontal one? If you were going to vertical I would just stick with a normal stock heresy arrangement...if vertical then you'd want to do something like Woofer-Tweeter/Mid-Woofer (where the tweeter is stacked directly above the mid). Ideally you will then want to implement an arrayed crossover such that only one woofer is playing from the midcrossover down to about 80Hz or so where the other woofer should take over...though if you are going to be crossing over at the reciever at about 80Hz then I would suggest just going with a Tweeter/Mid next to just one woofer (basically a heresy on its side with the Mid/Tweeter section rotated back to normal). Keep the cabinet volume the same and use the same crossover and you will have a very good sounding center channel without much thinking (engineering) involved. Btw, that suggestion to wire another 15" woofer to the back of the heresy and then put it out of phase will totally ruin the bass response of the system (like mega cancellation), it would also result in over excursion of the driver...not to mention the nasty comb-filtering that would occur as the frequency goes up. (Think of the net pressure difference between the inside and outside of the box....it would never change). The idea however is a very good one for use in a baffle system (where the front and back waves have to travel so far as to not cancel each other out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Man, I'm totally bummed. I had this long response and my computer locked up. This new BBS is slow as ever. Anyway.... Doc. Appreciate your input. I would not consider mounting two 12 inches either in a vertical or a horizontal array for a center channel. This would defeat the purpose of getting this "MOD" in a small space. Also, the heresy woofers run a lot of mid bass and I would agree there would be this "comb filtering" that has been chronicled on this forum big time lately. The suggestion I made above to mount one of the 12 woofers on a new back cover was to get the SPL "up" w/o damaging the existing cabinets. I can't visualize how the comb filtering could be an issue with this but I'm sure it's there. In my mind it would be worth fiddling with if you didn't want much work. I believe the initiator of this thread was trying to match some La Scalas. Sure, throw a Heresy as a center and your done...of course. Now he/she was looking for ideas. I can't see how running 2 tweeters or midranges offers any benefit. Help me out there. That's why I made another suggestion. However, I don't see as adding a second woofer to a K55 and K77 as being a bad thing. It would be best to build one cabinet as opposed to using a heresy cabinet. For instance, why not make a cabinet with "compound woofer loading" (w/o the vertical or horizontal array). I don't see how comb filtering would play a role here. Again correct me if I'm wrong. See the attached diagram and tell me what you think. I was interested in option 1 or 2 and parallel wiring. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Oh, here I thought you wanted to mount it to the very back of the heresy! What you are suggesting is called an isobarik design and its only advantage is to reduce the cabinet volume needed for the enclosure...in otherwords, you would have to make the heresy cabinet half the size and you would get the exact same frequency response...I believe it also reduces the sensitivity by 3dB so a lot more attenuation would be needed. The 1 and 3 alignments do reduce certain distortions though. One cool thing about the heresy crossovers is that you can just move the taps around for the squaker and tweeter to change their output...it does throw the crossover point off a bit, but this can be easily compensated for by wiring in a resistor to bring it back to normal...so if you really wanted to go the isobarik route it wouldn't be impossible. Just make sure you have extra amplifier room available because you will be lowering the electrical sensitivity of the system (it will need about 4x the power of a regular heresy to reach the same SPL's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriven Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I dont understand the series/parallel bit in the diagrams above. It looks to me like both are parallel. The one labeled series just has the polarity reversed on one of the drivers. What am I missing? (Hay Doc, how about that for a straight line!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Doc, Yes originally I was speaking of mounting it to the back. Again this was just to just raise dB. I agree with you of the potential downfalls of doing this. Regarding your last post. Yes these are Isobarik examples. And yes, your sensitivity could go down 3dB. HOWEVER, this may not be the case with example #1 wired in parallel. From what I understand, this has the advantages of a "push-pull" type arrangement. So it is Isobarik and "push-pull". Give me a second to scan something so that I can get you opinion on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Is the PM function not working! Note: I am not selling anything. The below is not my info. It is a book I purchased and showing it for personal gain only. Don't want any copyright people on my back. Doc, here is info from Loudspeaker Design. ftp://www.jwcullison.com/trash/Doc1.doc Maybe I'm reading this wrong but a push pull config with Isobarik design shouldn't have the loss of dB. In fact I though it would gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunt4 Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Thanks everyone....... To restate my plan for my home audio room, 2 81' lascalas(got), 5 heresys(need), and a sub(got). Sure my center heresy could very well just stand upright. Of course there is no fun in that. There are plenty of used heresy parts as well as speakers out there. Most of wich have to be purchesed in pairs. With the extra parts I would like to design a 1-of-a-kind center channel speaker/box. I am just unsure about running 2 extra speakers off a heresy crossover. Thanks everyone....................hunt sunburn......I live around park circle.........you should be able to here my lascals from there....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hunt4 You and I are in kinda the same boat. I am scratchin the head to find a good match for you and I. Like a little "scala" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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