colterphoto1 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Dragon, You're bang on. For instance, all one has to do as a first simple passive step is build a house with better insulative materials and techniques, give proper overhang and window placement so as to keep out sun in summer, and orient the home on the lot for more solar gain in the winter. These are surely cost effective is one considers only the resale value and cost savings over even a percentage of the life of the structure. I laugh at modern developments with homes of no particular architectural style, gables hanging out everywhere, roof lines mandated by room size and placement, almost random window and soffit arrangements. Some builders are so intent on giving the maximum square footage for the dollar that many easy engineering modifications are ignored. Energy savings (thus energy prices- our topic, remember it's supply and demand!) can be rocket science, but they can also be very simple techniques. Reducing reliance on resources and therefore LOWERING PRICES can begin with everyone doing a little more at home. Why not start today? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Colter---I don't care what a German thinks about how houses should be built. Now if he's talking about how a machine-gun should be built I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 it's hooked to an 800 psi cross ny pipeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 One needs to improve on the HK MP5/10 !?!?![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 MP5 is a submachine gun. This is a machine gun: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 As far as storage of natural gas goes, my local gas utility buys it from out of state and pumps it back into a depleted gas field locally for storage. Also, there are hugh liquid propane storage plants around. Don't see why they couldn't do the same with natural gas. One of the plants is located about 30 miles south of me, 24 million gallons of liquid propane at 50 degrees below zero, stored above ground in superinsulated, unpressurized tanks. There was a plot by some locals from the hills to blow them up a few years ago. Hope some jihadist doesn't decide to fly a plane into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Except with natural gas, that temperture is -259 degrees F to maintain it as a liquid. That is not practical as far as I know. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 or, ... raise the pressure .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Well, that difference in temperature would certainly make it difficult to store unpressurized... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 http://www.grist.org/news/powers/2003/11/06/assets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 ... Also, I wanna know what kind of car everybody drives. I drive a '95 Saturn SC1 that gets 36mpg hwy and 28 city, so I'm doing my part. My tiny 50 year old house with drafty windows & no insulation in the walls has a new 90+ effecient NG furnace, if that counts...nyway, my highest Gas bill last year was about $145 maybe if I'm lucky, I can keep that from doubling, LOL btw, some weeks I burn as much as 120 gallons of Reg Unl but usually it's more like 75 gallons when I drive either my dodge ram pickup that gets about 15 mpg and a Expedition that gets about 16 mpg but since they have both been paid off for well over 3 years now and still run great, I'm not about to go $60k in debt to buy new energy effieciant replacements (I need full sized and at this time Diesel is the only real alternative) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Back to the original topic by the starter of this thread, I think natural gas is particularly prone to having its distribution system compromised. Natural gas is a really special case in the energy mix. There is lots of it, but no practical (cheap) way to store it up for future demand. The stuff is either in the well or traveling to its final destination in a pipe to be used. My .... Bob What became of the salt dome NG storage facilities in Texas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 I really believe this is just a sign of the times. It just makes me concerned for my children. There is no doubt in my mind that the American way of living will be on a down slide for some time. Just the fact that we have to talk solar panels, gardens, smaller cars, gas rations, etc. to maintain our future way of living proves my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Colter---I don't care what a German thinks about how houses should be built. Now if he's talking about how a machine-gun should be built I'm all ears. Forget about the analogy between fine European craftsmanship of homes that last centuries versus our little drywall-box-covered-in-plastic homes. Do you understand my point about passive solar and simple engineering concepts? geesh, you guys kill me sometimes. Get the concept, will ya? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Colter---The American stick-built and drywall house IS wonderful engineering. It's strong, simple,easily repaired, roomy and affordable and allows millions to live in houses rather than apartments. Developed first on the praries of Illinois it's an example of American physical conditions meeting American needs. The stick house among the greatest of American contributions, along with the airplane and air-conditioning. On the other hand stick houses are ordinary but that's because they're so excellent. I haven't seen much fine European craftsmanship. I have several Swiss watches but honestly they seem no nicer than Japanese or old American ones (ever owned an old Gruen?). I've worked with some lousy German tools and machines though and met some thoroughly idiotic German engineers. And had a really lousy German car. I understand the Germans were good with chemicals. You want a simple engineering concept? Fire warms air, air is forced through ducts to heat room. Simple. The Romans did it, so do we. If you need more heat you let the fire burn longer. This is done with a simple device called a thermostat. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Except with natural gas, that temperture is -259 degrees F to maintain it as a liquid. That is not practical as far as I know. Bob as it is a Gas, it conforms to Boyles law.... at 800 psi, it stays a liquid without refrigeration ... if you have a leak, it wil ignite due to friction ....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Duke, OK, here are a couple of facts about making natural gas a liquid. First a couple of definitions: The critical temperature of a substance is the temperature at and above which vapor of the substance cannot be liquefied, no matter how much pressure is applied. The critical pressure of a substance is the pressure required to liquefy a gas at its critical temperature. For methane, (the main part of natural gas) those values are: Critical temperature : -116.8 ° F Critical pressure : 666.59344 psi Bottom line is that no amount of pressure will make natural gas a liquid or keep it a liquid without also cooling it. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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