Cornwall versus Chorus II...a comparison

[stormin]

I have to say the chorus seem to have a certain grit that the cornwalls don't have...dunno if that's just more detail or they're revealing problems with the amps/soundcard, but the cornwalls are definetly more liquid/smooth sounding.

Sounds like you might have your speaker A and speaker B mixed up. That is the exact opposite of any and all comparisons i have ever made between the two. If not i guess we all hear differently. But sure is nice to see another comparison of the the mighty cornwalls and the fabulous chorus II's.

Thanks Doc and keep bringing us your comparisons.

[DrWho]

the cranking session will have to wait until tomorrow...

for that I will be playing some cell dweller, nightwish and heck why

not crank the Beatles? The cell dweller opening has bass lower than any

speaker I know can handle (well below 20Hz) and is a great system

thrasher...probably the best "room pressurizer" I've ever heard too

[] Then there is a track on the Once album (forget the name of it,

but I know it's track 5 [])...there are some really quiet rain stinks

which you probably would never hear unless you purposely cranked it up

to hear them. I like to get them up to about 70dB where they can be

easily heard....and then "WHACK" you get an insanely well recorded

tribal drum. A good 20 or 30dB transient that just sends everything

into clipping. I'll be busting out the crown for this song see which

speaker distorts first [] I've already done this back home on the

Chorus and I can't get them to distort...my ears or rather my eyes give

out first (yes it hurts your eyeballs and you can't stop from blinking).

Been listening to some van halen and zepellin just now and the

cornwalls definetly win out there (phew, that's a good thing for colter

because that's the kind of music he listens to). Btw, it's a real close

call but the cornwalls definetly have a lot less edge on everything.

[DrWho]

I have to say the chorus seem

to have a certain grit that the cornwalls don't have...dunno if that's

just more detail or they're revealing problems with the amps/soundcard,

but the cornwalls are definetly more liquid/smooth sounding.

Sounds

like you might have your speaker A and speaker B mixed up. That is the

exact opposite of any and all comparisons i have ever made between the

two. If not i guess we all hear differently. But sure is nice to see

another comparison of the the mighty cornwalls and the fabulous chorus

II's.

Thanks Doc and keep bringing us your comparisons.

I need to rephrase this but don't know how...I want to say the inside

of the chorus is a lot smoother, but the outside is messier with the

grit. The inside of the cornwalls are messed up, but the outside is

smoother. I've been moving the speakers around the room and don't think

it's room related. I want to say the direct sound = the inside and

distortion = the outside. The inside is that what you hear after your

ears have grown accustomed (once you have gotten "into" the sound of

the speaker). The outside is what you hear right away when you switch

between the two, and you don't hear it after you've been sucked in.

The inside of the chorus is definetly smoother (much flatter frequency

response), but the cornwall is a lot nicer around the edges (whether it

be distortions in the source, upstream, etc etc). I was talking to

michael hurd and he said the cornwall woofer was designed to minimize

distortion and minimize group delay...yes at the sacrifice of a flat

response. With this older not as bass heavy music, the extra fatness of

the cornwall sound really helps with the enjoyment, whereas the chorus

bring out all those unpleasant distortions (so the chorus is definetly

the more accurate speaker in that regard).

[colterphoto1]

HEY BOY, don't you be blowing up my Cornwalls with that Nightwish stuff! I know how you young whippersnappers are! Durn, trust a guy with your speakers and next thing you know he's doing Max SPL tests with them. Great.

Michael

just funnin ya Doc![]

[jwc]

Dr. Who. I know it might be bedtime but run that bass thing by me again. You say:

"I was talking to michael hurd and he said the cornwall woofer was designed to minimize distortion and minimize group delay...yes at the sacrifice of a flat response. With this older not as bass heavy music, the extra fatness of the cornwall sound really helps with the enjoyment, whereas the chorus bring out all those unpleasant distortions (so the chorus is definetly the more accurate speaker in that regard)."

Is there a way you can say that in other words. What do you mean the chorus brings out "unpleasant distortions" but is definetly the more accurate speaker. Are you saying the more modern music has unpleasant distortions of the low end and the chorus is able to play them? For instance, when you play that track I suggested (modern), the Chorus is able to pick up all that "cheap rumble bass"?

[colterphoto1]

This may well turn out like the LS vs CW test Indy and I ran at my place (don't worry Doc, they're still set up for ya). The speaker we prefered was completely dependent on the type of music.

So in reaction to this, I put a pair of every Klipsch speaker pair I own in that room. Currently stacked up are:

LaScala with BEC xovers

Cornwalls (x4 for HT)

Heresy

CF3 (owned by another member, awating transport)

KG4

RB5II

RB3II

KSB1.1

Looks better than any emporium showroom I've ever seen, hence the sig below!

Come on down Doc, bring your Chorii if you've got room

[stormin]

HEY BOY, don't you be blowing up my Cornwalls with that Nightwish stuff! I know how you young whippersnappers are! Durn, trust a guy with your speakers and next thing you know he's doing Max SPL tests with them. Great.

LMAO

[crazytubepower]

haha colter, be carful there dr. your hearing is very important, the most sacred gift god gave you. SO becareful and keep those spl's down

[DrWho]

no worries colter...if them diaphgrams come rocketing out you know I'll

be dead and unable to deliver them altogether. I'm really looking

forward to pissing the neighbors off tomorrow....gotta do it in short

bursts so they don't know where it's coming from (though with the whole

building shaking I don't think they'll be able to tell anyway) []

hehe, got ya scared yet?

Actually colter already knows I can't stand super loud music...I was

pinned to the back of the mixer room at the last pilgrimage and that

was what, 114dB?. I must confess that the coolest experience in the

world is a snare hit at over 130dB - didn't know your chest could be

hit so hard (but this is done with hearing protection of course).

Dr. Who. I know it might be bedtime but run that bass thing by me again. You say:

"I

was talking to michael hurd and he said the cornwall woofer was

designed to minimize distortion and minimize group delay...yes at the

sacrifice of a flat response. With this older not as bass heavy music,

the extra fatness of the cornwall sound really helps with the

enjoyment, whereas the chorus bring out all those unpleasant

distortions (so the chorus is definetly the more accurate speaker in

that regard)."

Is there a way you can say that in other

words. What do you mean the chorus brings out "unpleasant

distortions" but is definetly the more accurate speaker. Are you

saying the more modern music has unpleasant distortions of the low end

and the chorus is able to play them? For instance, when you

play that track I suggested (modern), the Chorus is able to pick up all

that "cheap rumble bass"?

First of all, I can't believe you had me play that track! Oh the thought of an old guy listening to it hahahahaha. []

My impressions of that particular song are that the chorus II's dig

deeper cleaner...but this is probably due to the peak in the 80Hz

region of the cornwall which even shows up in the modelling. so

relative to the 80Hz peak the cornwall didn't seem to go as low, but I

have a feeling both were playing those 40Hz notes at the same volume.

Before I had hooked up the cornwalls I was listening to that song with

my subwofoers (marantz 940's) plugged in....they play flat down to 26Hz

in this room (they would play flat down to 22Hz back home). Both

speakers were missing the lower fundamentals that the subwoofers were

able to hit (which was probably right around 23Hz because it was just

barely loud enough to be audible). I didn't find the bass to be

distorted in the recording by any means (did a quick check with a pair

of sony mdr headphones)

The distortion I was talking about were being masked by the cornwalls

who have more bass than they should...so the older bass shy recordings

were being EQ'd by the cornwalls and thus making them sound way more

pleasant. The Chorus II on the other hand have a very flat response if

not sloping response, which then brings out the distortions in the

music because they aren't being masked by the bass. "Distortions"

occuring in the mid and high frequencies.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think some crossover changes

would make a world of difference...for both of the speakers actually.

The Chorus need a louder woofer and the cornwalls need a little boost

in the midrange. There is a sound somewhere in the middle of the two

speakers that I claim would be the ideal sounding speaker. I'm thinking

a front ported chorus II with a wider front baffle might be the

ticket....or how bout a dual woofer chorus? now we're

talking []

[jwc]

Now that is the post I was looking for. Nice work doc.

To my defense, I gathered a bunch of songs to play at my 12 y/o neice's B-day party earlier this year.

Colter, what network/caps you got in that Corn?

[DrWho]

These corns were in the previous poessesion of Spaaz and haven't made

their way to colter's yet My home not on campus is literally 5 minutes

from spaaz....my house on campus is only 2 hours from colter's so I

picked them up for him. And then we've got arrangements for some

weekend get togethers so he's having me

hold on to them until the next weekend excursion (so pretty much no out

of the way driving for these babies).

now this is rare...Three Dog Night is equally pleasing on both

speakers, but the timbre is waaaaaay different, yet the feel of the

music is identical.

[DrWho]

can it be??? nightwish sounds better on cornwalls? oh the agony... I

can't wait till tomorrow to try them both loud, perhaps the cornwall is

just a better quiet speaker (I've been gradually getting quieter all

night, listening at like 60dB now).

[johnyholiday]

crank cranium crunching jams around 2or 3am when the 120volts into the pad is real clean

[Number 9]

The Chorus need a louder woofer and the Cornwalls need a little boost

in the midrange.

What?

This is the opposite of what I know. I alsways found my Cornwall's very "forward" sounding .. e.g. a prominent midrange.

[DrWho]

The Chorus need a louder woofer and the Cornwalls need a little boost

in the midrange.

What?

This is the opposite of what I know. I alsways found my Cornwall's very "forward" sounding .. e.g. a prominent midrange.

Well the cornwalls are forward sounding, but compared to the chorus

it's like they're far away. The difference is very much like turning

around 180 degrees. Chorus = looking at the speakers and cornwalls =

looking away.

[crazytubepower]

Yes blast them at around 2 or 3am, thats a kick in the pants

[Duke Spinner]

looking away ...from a CW ....????

that Mid Horns as in yer face as it gets ....

take the ear plugs Out when your listening, Who ...[]

[DrWho]

Here's a waterfall for the song I reference in the next post. This is

what hitting a tribal drum looks like in the frequency domain as it

changes over time. (it's only showing the first drum hit in the song).

[tillmbil]

I would have to side with Duke all the way here. The CW's are very music dependent for there best sound. Jazz at any volume is incredible. Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" has been heard here by numerous musicians and tehy think the sound is great.

Play Queen "Another one Bites the Dust". Listen to the clarity, vocals and the bass slam if you want the CW's to really shine. Turn around and play Maroon5 "Harder to Breathe", and owe the mid horn kills you. I am now thinking of rope caulking the mid horn. Play Maroon5 on the JBL100's with SS gear and wow does it sound right, draws me right in. Great bass and no in your face mid screach. The CW's almost sound as if they are breaking up...not possible though. If you have Queen, please play and give me your opinion. It is great on CW's.

[DrWho]

ok, looks like things are working again...

One of my favorite system testers is Nightwish's 'Creek Mary's Blood'

on the Once Album (track 5). It starts out with some rainsticks and

then has a very delicate flute part....coupled with an insane tribal

drum that just rocks the room. It is a FMD nightmare, but both the

chorus and cornwall dominate the test (mostly due to the 3-way design

and low group delay of the woofers). Anyways, the rain stick section

plays at -60dB and the peak of the drum hit nails -3dB. That's a huge

57dB transient!!! [] The resonation of the drum sits up around -12dB

so the apparent transient is more like 48dB. Take into account that no

woofer can track this and you're looking at a 40dB impact which just

forces your eyes to blink [] I have attached a small mp3 where I have

extended the length of the rainstick to give you time to turn it up to

a level that you can hear easily and then really enjoy the huge

sound...I hope you don't mind me fading out the song right before it

gets interesting (you need to go buy the album anyway).

Ok, so sound comparisons....the sound of the flute (without the drums

playing) and that of the female voice is simply superior with the

Chorus. The cornwall handles the electric guitars and male vocals

better (they both sound so much more powerful and grungier). At the

first drum hit, the chorus was about 6dB louder than the cornwall - is

it because it could track better or perhaps was just hitting some

resonance? If you look at the waterfall, you'll see that one of the

really strong areas resides right around 40Hz, which is very close to

the tuning point of both speakers. The drum hits through the rest of

the segment are actually playing at the same volume, but don't seem as

loud because the rest of the mix has been brought up to around -15dB

continuous. I didn't have time to plug in my crown amp so perhaps the

amplifier in my reciever was running outta juice with the cornwalls

(which have a lower impedance dip than the chorus). Nevertheless, the

important thing here is that the rest of the instruments couldn't

notice whether or not the drum was hitting...nice and steady flute

right through the mess.