Opinions on McIntosh amp and approx value (also include Roger Russel's comment to me)

[Coytee]

Ok...bear with me here a minute...

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First disclaimer: I know its over kill, I know its not necessary.

Second disclaimer: Ive got a 4wpc SE-OTL so I KNOW its going to be hard to find something that sounds more lush.

Third disclaimer: This isnt for sounding lush although if it DOES then Ive found my nirvana!

Im still trying to find a high powered amp that will sound great, low noise & have a lot of headroom.

This isnt any trashing of low powered or average powered amps since Im VERY content with the sound the SE-OTLs put out...until I want to do some wall shaking.

Ok, I say all the above to just try to be sure were past any wonderings as to what/why and perhaps just get to the answers.

I found these on ebay over the weekend: (found 3 & one is already over so Ive deleted that one)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5827047706&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5827047706&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I then went to Roger Russels website to try to learn more about these & found out he had a contact Roger button... so I did and this is what I said.

Hi Roger,

I hope you don't mind me being so bold as to send this to you so I'll get right to the point.

I live in Knoxville (So can go by DeWicks easily for their refurb stuff if need be)

I have a pair of Klipschorns. I have a pair Transcendent SE-OTL (bridged to 4 wpc) amps I use for "luscious listening"

I want a high powered amp for when I want the Khorns to shake the walls. I don't care if it's 200 or 500 wpc...in fact I'm probably more interested in the 500 just for kicks (not literally, just making the point of my predisposition of high power). I'm intrigued on getting a McIntosh...

I currently have a dbx BX3 MK-III that I got off ebay and not sure I have gotten rid of the "what about a Mac" feeling, so I know until I get or try a Mac I'll be bothered.

That means I'll end up getting a McIntosh so I may as well not fight it & try to get the right/best one.

If it matters, I'm using a Juicymusic "Peach" preamp

On ebay there is currently a MC-2002, MC-2600, MC-2300

Again, I'm looking for something with a LOT of head room but I don't know anything about McIntosh nor those autoformers and if they'd be of help with my Klipschorns.

If you have any thoughts you'd be willing to share on which amp might be my "right" choice, I'd appreciate that. If you get flooded with this stuff and don't respond, I respect that too.

Best Regards

Richard D. Albright

Knoxville, TN

This is his response to me:

Richard:

The best of the three amplifiers you mention is the MC2600. I used these in
the lab to test the systems we designed. I never did drive them to full
power but that reserve was always there. The 2600 is heavy, though.

Roger

Unfortunately, he misunderstood my question a touch. What I really meant to be asking him was which McIntosh amp (even if not mentioned above) would be a best pick for Khorns

Soooooooo, anyone here have any thoughts as to the amp, how good these would mate with Khorns, how quiet they are...

More importantly, any idea of an APPROXIMATE market value for the MC2600? Is this thing likely to go for $7,000 or is $3,500 reasonable? (just making up numbers to make the illustration)

This IS from the proverbial horses mouth, so Im open to who thinks what/why this amp might be a great (or bad) idea.

Isnt it typically said that more drivers get fried from using a too LOW powered amp rather than one with too much?

[DrWho]

I can think of two recommendations:

First, the HK #30 series (330,530,730, etc etc...). They are one of the

hidden wonders in the audio world. I have heard the HK730 side by side

against some very extremely exensive amps, both tube and SS (in fact, I

believe one of them was a SET too). For the source material (some old

classic rock on LP - great recording), the HK730 was by far better sounding than all the

others....smooth rich sound with more than plenty of headroom. It is an

integrated reciever with one of the better phono pre's and radio tuners

out there. If you want it to be strictly used as an amp, there is a

preamp input on the back that you can bypass everything else and go

directly into. The best part is you can get one of these recievers for

under $100 in good condition! And if you don't like it I'm sure there

are many on the forum who would be willing to take it off your hands.

Second, the Crown K1/K2. This is probably my favorite amp for high

powered home use. It is extremely linear and clean sounding at all

volumes. It is definetly more expensive than the HK option, but I feel

is worth every penny of difference. Sadly, if you're extremely in love

with the "distortion of tubes" (aka their sound or timbre) then you

might find this amp to be lacking in the "lushness department". The K2

comes as close to straight wire with gain as you'll ever get. Sometimes

this requires a slight change in the way one listens to music - and for

me, the listening change results in more enjoyment of the music.

Btw, I noticed you signed as "Richard Albright" - are you somehow

related to the John Albright on these forums? (who is also from TN).

You're from the south so I was thinking perhaps he might be your cousin

and father? []

[Coytee]

Thanks for all your thoughts & comments, I'll look into the other amps. I DO like the idea of a tuner and have been contemplating getting one so the HK might kill 2 birds.

As for John, nope, no relation!

Interestingly enough, I was working in retail a lifetime ago & when I took their check & checked drivers license... their name was Albright too... was a weird feeling. You don't bump into many of "us" too often.

John is about 90 miles away, due south on I-75. I'm a transplant from Ohio.

I'll claim to be his long lost relative though... if it helps me mooch his stuff [6]

[frt8dog]

Hi Coytee,

I thought I'd post my experience with K-horns, SET and McIntosh. I had some George Wright gear WPL20 and his WPA3.5 mono blocks. Awesome mids/highs but the bass was lacking in my opinion (I heard this was typical of the low power SET amps). They were also very quiet even with the sensitivity of the horns. I really had to crank it to get the bass I was looking for...which was fine but at those levels I'd go deaf. At low volume levels the bass just wasn't there for my listening satisfaction. I eventually sold then Wright gear and bought a McIntosh C2200 tube preamp and their MC2102 tube amp. What a combo for the K-horns!!! Plenty of bass and the mids/high sweet. Now both of those are tubed, but I do have a MC2200 (200 watt/ch) solid state amp that I hook up once in awhile to the C2200. Now it's a great powerful amp and does a great job but I do prefer the MC2102. To me the MC2102 seems to be much cleaner with the sound and much more detailed. I do prefer tubes to solid state. The MC2101 is a 100 watt stereo amp, which is plenty of power for the K-horns. Both the Mcintosh tubed and solid state pieces are very quiet with the horns. Hopefully what I experienced with my gear/speaker match search here may help you a bit with your decision. The McIntosh gear is an excellent choice for Klipsch speakers. Now having said all this I am presently looking for a used pair of Wright 3.5 mono's again believe it or not. There is something that I miss from having the wright's over the years that the Mac's do differently, if that makes sense. I'll use the 3.5's whenever I get the urge for the "wright" sound I was used to in the past. Anyway Coytee I hope this helps. In regards to price I couldn't help you there, I bought my gear used, on Audiogon, in which I had good experience. Maybe some other folks can chime in. Have a great day!

[Coytee]

Thanks for the input.

As an aside, I too had a pair of Wrights (that I bought from Danny) & put them side by side with the OTL's (Transcendent) that I bought from Daddy Dee.

For my ears, the OTL's won.

If you've not heard them, you might give it a whirl (although I had to bridge them to get the 4 wpc as the standard flaver just didn't have enough oomph for me).

[dbflash]

frt8dog,

Very nice write up and welcome.

I agree with you about the tubes and looking for another pair of Wright's.

I am really starting to believe Coytee and I have the same ear for sound and I am going to try out a pair of OTL's down the road. I am very happy with my VRD's, but I do miss the SET sound. I don't know exactly why, but there is just something about the mid's that draw me in.

The bass was ok for me with Cornwalls, but I never tried the Wrights with my Khorns.

Yesterday I listened to my system from 5:50am until about 9:30 last night (I am hoping I caught the flu early while it's still warm out) and it sounded so good, even though I was listening with one ear and falling asleep before finishing a CD.

I need to roll my Parasound into my system to see what a SS amp will sound like, but I just love my system right now.

Danny

[D-MAN]

I am running McIntosh SS amplification ON HORNS, and frankly, NO DIFFERENCE with tubes except in one area!

Tubes are great and yadda-yadda-etc. but I went with the Mc SS amp for DYNAMIC RANGE. Other than that, you can't tell that its SS. It has the output autoformers which some think give it that "tube-like" quality.

There is an awful lot of hoopla concerning tubes, and within their respective bandpass and operational envelope they are indeed fine if you can put up with the care and feeding issues.

When you want to expand your performance envelope, then you are into gear swapping. Why not get one that does everything you want right off the bat?

I haven't had the urge to replace my amp in over 10 years. I actually haven't found anything "better". It actually replaced 2x60w mono tube heads.

DM

[cleandan]

Coytee, I do not have K'horns, or the MC2600, or others mentioned, but I do have Klipsch and McIntosh gear. I have KLF-20 speakers, Heresy I' and II's. My McIntosh gear consists of a C32 (SS) pre amp, an MC2125 (SS) amp, and an MC75 (SS) tuner. I purchased my gear through Roger Russel and Terry DeWick. They may have slightly higher prices than other places, but the gear comes from a qualified repair shop, in working order, with a warranty...which means something to me. I suggest calling Roger and speaking directly to him about what you want. He is polite, knowledgable, helpful, and does not steer you to just the highest price equipment as the "best" choice. I run all the tone controls in straight up or neutral position, but have played with them and the range is very wide so you should be able to tailor any sound you want. My MC2125 is 125wpc and honestly drives my KLF-20's better than I had hoped. The bass response is tight and powerful. The mids and highs are a clear and crisp as one could want, and because the KLF-20's are so effiecient I can remove any cob webs in the room should the need arise. I have metered over 117db constant, without turning the pre amp volume, or amp gains, up past 12:00 and the sound is perfectly clear...although waaaaaaay to loud to stay in the room for any length of time. The sound is also quite nice at lower volumes too (in the 60-80db range), which is where I do most of my listening. The Mac amps are "underrated", or as I like to say, correctly rated and not hyped. If you get a 200wpc Mac you will have the power to dry your hair while listening, and enjoy the sound for your efforts.

One great thing about Mac is the value they hold. If you buy a $3000 set up, ten years from now it will be worth about $3000, or maybe more for collector reasons, if you keep it in good shape, so the investment is not that great a risk should you not like the sound. Talk to Roger, make your choice, and let us know what you think of the McIntosh you purchased. If I had my druthers, I'd get two of the MC275 tube amps.

[CaptnBob]

Bill Bell, the owner of the Music Box in Wellesley, MA and the long time Klipsch dealer, felt the Mc 2205 was the best sounding amp he'd heard on K-horns. In fact, he replaced his Marantz 9s with one. This, presumably, was a guy who could get his hands on anything he wanted.

That said, you might look at the Mc-275. It's got a lot more real world power than its ratings would indicate. I used to get complaints from the next county (really) when driving four LaScalas at outdoor parties.

[Cleve]

The 2600 is an awesome piece of equipment. I *believe* the

Digital Dynamic amps, in addition to their massive continous output,

had more "headroom" for peaks than even the standard, conservatively

rated Mac amps.

In terms of prices - dunno what your budget is... Audio

Classics has a "B-1" graded version for sale for $4600.

The slightly less powerful predecessor to the 2600, the 2500, sells in

B-1 condition there for $3400.

Now, one seller on Audiogon has a 2500 for sale for $1950.

keeping prices proportionate, one might expect a 2600 to retail for

$2600-2700. This auction still has 4 days to go, and the

price is over $2000 already. Granted, the Audiogon seller doesn't

indicate that the amp was serviced by McIntosh. However, the

seller in the auction you posted has an alarmingly low 87.5% positive

feedback, and his feedback is private to boot! I doubt I

would bid on that auction!

If you want more opinions about Mac amps, might I suggest asking

Ron Cornelius, product manager of McIntosh Labs, and a heckuva nice

guy, whom is a regular at Audio Karma's McIntosh forums (

www.audiokarma.org)? And yes, the forums are up and

running again.