Heresy refinishing question...

[Kriton]

Hey all,

I posted a while ago about a pair of Heresy's that I picked up for

$200.00, (entitled "Frankenspeakers?"), and I am trying to sand and

refinish them right now, and I have a few questions.

First, the finish that was used on them was an oak lacquer, I am

assuming, and it was not applied terribly well...the finish was shiny

but bumpy, like the lacquer was left on overnight and it attracted dust

and dirt? One the top of one speaker, the lacquer was almost

opaque solid brown, couldn;t the grain at all, looked like brown paint.

Also, I have surmised that the owner had never even taken the grills

off these things, and this was borne out by the fact that the lacquer

dripped down onto the black face above the tweeters about an inch and a

half all the way across the top of each speakers motorboard...a shiny

spiky edge on the matte black paint...fortunately the stuff didn't

enter the horns...

Other than that, the corners are perfect, very few gouges, and they

sound good...so I am in the process of refinishing them. I would

like to make them black stained...but here is the problem. I have

sanded one of them gently down as far as i dare, but the brown lacquer

in still apparent in shadows on the surface of the ply; I do not want

to sand any further, lest I sand off the top layer, but I am afraid

that if I go ahead and get them smoothed down, and apply an oil based

ebony stain, it will be darker when the brown is andd be blotchy.

Is there any way to bleach (for want of better phrase) the birch down

to get it to blonde, so that the stain will be even when applied, or

should I just paint the things black? I thought of rounding over

the corners, but I would like to maintain the integrity of the cabs if

possible. Anybody have a good black stain they would recommend?

If staining is not going to work, and get them as dark as i would like,

I am then considering the industrial black pebbled finish...what do you

guys think?

TIA,

K

[PrestonTom]

Kriton,

How do you know the finish was lacquer? If it was a homemade finish, who knows what they may have used (urethane or who knows what). You are probably correct in assuming the bumpiness was due to dust while it was drying (although, they may have done something to raise the grain - e.g., some water based product). I am only guessing at this point.

One way to spot lacquer is to see if it disolves in lacquer thinner (urethane will not).

It looks like there are a number of challenges with the drips, brown color and what not. You are very correct in being careful not to sand too much.

If the surfaces are not marred, are you comfortable in applying a veneer? This would open up a number of options for you. My experience with veneer is that the second time you do it, the results are quite abit better. So go ahead an practice on something else first.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[michael hurd]

You could veneer, and then stain black if that is the look you are going for, or apply a black lacquer, so that the grain shows. Alternately, you could apply a sealer, then paint with a black enamel or polyurethane.

Of course, you could also apply a textured finish with a rockgard gun, then paint black.

[colterphoto1]

or just fibreglass em.[]

No, I like Michael Hurd's idea of just applying a new veneer. Then your options are wide open and you can really make em shine. Why continue to fight the headaches of someone else's bad workmanship? Hint, if you can see the label, HOL - the L is lacquer from the factory. ALthough I've never heard of that combination, ever.

M

[Tom Mobley]

my local Home Depot has a wood bleach product. I've never tried

it, so I can't really give any guidance on it. On the woodworker

forums I see guys talking about using it with good results, but

YMMV. Tough deal to do just the top of one speaker, small

quantity of veneer there.

[Kriton]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I wan't clear, the Heresys I am talking about are HBR, that is

the previous owner stained/lacquered/ did something to a pair of raw birch speakers (I thought I

pointed that out, sorry if it wasn't directly said).

They are Heresy I's with the butt joined edges, so even if I could

reveneer the things, I don't see how I could reveneer and keep the

original butt joined edges? But veneering seems like more of a

hassle then just sanding the things down, especially since I want to

make them black...AND, the corners are mint and relatively square

unmashed...with no to few scratches at all...I think with a little time

I could make these things shine.

NO, I am not doing just the tops of the speakers, but all 6 sides,

motorboard, edges, the whole kit...The residual brown color from the

stain/lacquer/what-have-you is not real dark, just there...hence my

question.

I would love to learn someday to reveneer these things, but I certainly want to keep these H1.5's as original as possible...

Hey, how does Klipsch do that industrial rock finish on the black

commercial speakers? Do they do the texture first, and then paint

them, or is the paint itself textured? ( I always thought those

were cool.)

Thanks again for the replies...

K

[colterphoto1]

Bruce, depends on whether you want to keep the 7ply butt joint look or not. The HD's that BSbutton veneered and I finished were butt jointed, but he sanded very smooth, then reveneered. Here's what you get.

[colterphoto1]

The industrial finish is obtained one of two ways.

Pebble paint is a spatter paint that is applied first and leaves the raised bumps, then sprayed black over that.

The fibreglass type is single layer fibreglass mat that is coated with black gel coat. It is then given the aluminum edge treatment. I'm going to do a pair of old beaters in an old rock and roll glass style that goes like this.

First, rip the grille edge off so the front panel is smooth, like a decorator. Route the front face and back to front edges with 3/8 roundover bit, then sand semi-smooth (you want some wood fibres for glass to stick to. Then glass all faces, then use the rolls of glass batt (made for small repairs ) about 4" wide. lay them out over each edge, overlapping on the corners, which will then be three layers thick built up. You can add any color colorant to the epoxy gel material.

I'm thinking of putting the spring loaded handles on the tops, and pole mounts on the bottoms for stand mounting. You can take them outdoors with impunity, outdoor HT no problem. Put the PA waffle grilles over the woofer and set em up on the poles for the volleyball court, blasting Beach Boys tunes. WOOOHHOOO.

Now call me about those logo ideas.

Michael

[Kriton]

Mike!

Just got your message, I will give you a buzz soon, tonight, I hope -

If I am not in the office too long. The etched glass logos are

coming well, they are sharp as hell, will fill you in when I talk to

you.

Thanks for the replies, I am going to try to see if my lacquer thinner

will dissolve this stuff, that was a good idea. I am goiing to

try and get some picts up too, so you can all see what I am talking

about.

Thanks again.

K

[Jimmy James]

Hey all,

I posted a while ago about a pair of Heresy's that I picked up for

$200.00, (entitled "Frankenspeakers?"), and I am trying to sand and

refinish them right now, and I have a few questions.

First, the finish that was used on them was an oak lacquer, I am

assuming, and it was not applied terribly well...the finish was shiny

but bumpy, like the lacquer was left on overnight and it attracted dust

and dirt? One the top of one speaker, the lacquer was almost

opaque solid brown, couldn;t the grain at all, looked like brown paint.

Also, I have surmised that the owner had never even taken the grills

off these things, and this was borne out by the fact that the lacquer

dripped down onto the black face above the tweeters about an inch and a

half all the way across the top of each speakers motorboard...a shiny

spiky edge on the matte black paint...fortunately the stuff didn't

enter the horns...

Other than that, the corners are perfect, very few gouges, and they

sound good...so I am in the process of refinishing them. I would

like to make them black stained...but here is the problem. I have

sanded one of them gently down as far as i dare, but the brown lacquer

in still apparent in shadows on the surface of the ply; I do not want

to sand any further, lest I sand off the top layer, but I am afraid

that if I go ahead and get them smoothed down, and apply an oil based

ebony stain, it will be darker when the brown is andd be blotchy.

Is there any way to bleach (for want of better phrase) the birch down

to get it to blonde, so that the stain will be even when applied, or

should I just paint the things black? I thought of rounding over

the corners, but I would like to maintain the integrity of the cabs if

possible. Anybody have a good black stain they would recommend?

If staining is not going to work, and get them as dark as i would like,

I am then considering the industrial black pebbled finish...what do you

guys think?

TIA,

K

Tried to PM you several times this morning, doesn't seem to be working,

I also sent you an email through the forum, maybe they were unable to

do that too.

I recently re-did a pair that I promise you were as bad or worse than

yours. Dirt, grime, purple staining from wine or grape juice and even

pet urine. Mine were raw Birch as well. They can be cleaned without

going through the top ply. If you would like a meaningful attempt to

answer your question, short of going to a cabinet shop or having them

re-veneered, PM me.

I'd be happy to tell you what I know.

[MarkBK]

Kriton,

Lots of options have already been suggested - all good ones. I have done veneering and it is not that hard - just requires patience, a good contact cement type glue and careful application of the veneer. One of the benefits to doing it over just staining is that you can do things like "bookmatch" the veneers so that each cabinets is a mirror image of the other cabinet in terms of wood grain - a very cool look. Also, you have a VERY wide selection of woods - rosewood -mahogany - curly maple - various oaks and lots of exotic species - Zebrawood, teak, vermillion (paduak), Satinwood, etc. You could even do Ash and then stain that black if you really prefer the black color.

Search the web for veneer sources and explore the options.

Mark