Arcam ARV300 is in 'da house......

[MarkBK]

And sounding quite impressive! I have it on loan today to review for purchase and have been VERY impressed with it's musical quality. I am amazed at the detail - soundstage is incredible - great dynamics. I have NOT heard any other receiver sound this good - EVER. I can see why the reviews have been so good.

BTW - I first listened at the store for about an hour using B&W 704s. My friend and I both thought the RF5's were clearly superior to the 704s - better soundstage, more detail, better high frequency imaging,etc. Frankly it was shocking to hear that much difference immediatley upon listening with the same source material. Detail that was just not there on the 704s. KUDOS to Klipsch!!!!

If you are looking at Denon,etc do yourself a favor and listen to the Arcam AVR300 before you purchase. Myself, I have one last review....Outlaw 990/7125 seperates. When I get them I hope to bring back the Arcam to compare in my environment against the seperates and then return which ever sounds the worst.

[ottscay]

Hey MarkBK, glad you're enjoying them. To be honest, I have never, ever heard a reciever as musical as the AVR300. I tend to downplay my enthusiasm when others ask because I know that sound preference is somewhat subjective, but my response was along the lines of yours. I would predict that it will actually eclipse the Outlaw separates, but I am very curious to hear your impression.

When I raved about the AVR300 before, some people pointed out that it lacked some things (e.g. hdmi switching and auto E.Q.) that many HT buffs want, and of course they are right; if those things are important to a buyer then the AVR300 isn't a good deal, especially considering the price of the Pioneer Elite series. That said, for those who want truly audiophile 2 channel and multi channel music out of a HT septup, I can't recommend the Arcam enough.

While high end separates surely sound better (including Arcam's own products), I haven't heard a system of separates that sounded better than didn't cost at least a grand more. So if you want a combination of music and movies, it's a bargain, especially since you cann use the preouts with a outboard amp if you wanted to in the future to make one truly fantastic system.

That said, I haven't heard the newer Outlaw separates, so again I eagerly await your impressions.

[pythagore]

Judging on your impressions of the AVR300, I can predict that while you will find the Outlaw seperates not tood bad sounding but the Outlaw 2 channel music performance won't be no match for the AVR300.

[MarkBK]

Judging on your impressions of the AVR300, I can predict that while you will find the Outlaw seperates not tood bad sounding but the Outlaw 2 channel music performance won't be no match for the AVR300.

pythagore,

I'll be curious to hear that as I am using the Arcam in complete bypass mode and plan to do the same for the Outlaw. So, it should be a good comparison of how little a signal is impacted passing through a minimum of circuitry in both brands.

[meagain]

Wow Mark - Sounds like you really like this thing. I'm curious as to how it sounds compared to your tube gear. Will you only be useing this with HT and leaving standard music listening to the McIntoshes?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'bypass mode', but can one hook say... a tube pre-amp to this thing if one was inclined for perhaps better 2-channel?

[MarkBK]

Wow Mark - Sounds like you really like this thing. I'm curious as to how it sounds compared to your tube gear. Will you only be useing this with HT and leaving standard music listening to the McIntoshes?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'bypass mode', but can one hook say... a tube pre-amp to this thing if one was inclined for perhaps better 2-channel?

My intent was to finish the HT electronics with something that was VERY good at music too. There are many times when I'm too lazy/tired to change cabling to the 2 channel tube system but still want to listen to music without compromising the sonic quality.

The bypass mode is a direct analog connection - the receiver turns off all the other processing to minimize interference.

This is the BEST sounding receiver I have ever heard - including Denon (3806,etc), Marantz (5k top of the line), Sherwood Newcastle(R965), etc. The imaging, sound stage, and detail are absolutely amazing and I can see why the reviews I've read rave about the music quality of this AV receiver. Do yourself a favor sometime - go to Audio Consultants on a Saturday near 5pm and take one home to audition til Tuesday. They will ding your Credit Card as security - and this is a $2000.00 receiver - but when you plug in and listen - MAN - will you be amazed!!!!

The thought crossed my mind last night that this may even be good enough to supplant the tube system - although IF I did that - it would be with the Arcam seperates which are quite a bit more expensive.

With all the exploration you two seem to be doing - and with the HT that I think you are trying to put together - you should certainly give it a listen before you decide.

For me. I have one more test before I pull the trigger - Outlaw 990/7125. After I receive them and take a week to burn in and configure - I do plan on getting the Arcam for a final comparison. Which ever wins - will stay. I have read a review that suggest the Outlaw seperates may have a very slight advantage.

I'll also compare against the tubes at that time too - just for fun []

[meagain]

It looks nice too. Would match my cdp. How is the build quality? It doesn't seem to have blue lights.

I think in my perfect world, I'd love to have one great amp that would do HT AND killer 2-channel and be able to add a nice tube pre to that amp for 2 channel... AND be able to use a remote for volume. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist.

Mark, is there any way at all that one could 'turn off' the pre-amp in that receiver to hook up a separate pre-amp? Or maybe that's a stupid idea. I wonder if the separate Arcam amp sounds as good as you're suggesting. If you end up going with Arcam separates - which ones would you target?

I'm beyond looking forward to your comparison with your tubes. I'll try to be patient?

[MarkBK]

It looks nice too. Would match my cdp. How is the build quality? It doesn't seem to have blue lights.

I think in my perfect world, I'd love to have one great amp that would do HT AND killer 2-channel and be able to add a nice tube pre to that amp for 2 channel... AND be able to use a remote for volume. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist.

Mark, is there any way at all that one could 'turn off' the pre-amp in that receiver to hook up a separate pre-amp? Or maybe that's a stupid idea. I wonder if the separate Arcam amp sounds as good as you're suggesting. If you end up going with Arcam separates - which ones would you target?

I'm beyond looking forward to your comparison with your tubes. I'll try to be patient?

This comes close to meeting all your needs. The build quality is EXCEPTIONAL - very solid - and not as heavy as the Sherwood was - BUT it still has a bit of heft to it! There are preamp outs to use external power amps - did not have time to see if there is a way to route an external source to the internal amps WITHOUT going thru the preamp stage. I think the manual may be available online. I think you may find no need for that once you hear it - it IS that good musically speaking.

If I did go with seperates - the AVP700 is the pre/pro version (About $4k for the Pre and Amp combo) of this AVR300 - but the real sweetheart of the line is the AV8 and P7 combo - of course, that's also $10K!! Someone else on the forum already has the AVP700 and loves it!

Your patience will be needed - 'cause I first need to sell some vintage musical instrument "toys" to get the finances for this HT stuff. I hope to resolve it all in two weeks.

And the test to tubes will be VERY interesting...........[^o)]

[ottscay]

Let me suppliment MarkBK's comments by adding that the build quality is truly top notch. And of course as a reciever you can indeed control the volume by a remote, although the manual volume control has a very nice feel to it as well.

I really can't say enough about the musicality of this reciever, so I'm thrilled that I (well, and the reviewers) aren't the only ones to think so. For what it's worth to home theater buffs, the separation and localization of surrounnd effects (especially in PLIIx mode) is stunning as well. I notice every time I go watch movies anywehere else. Even watching tv in PLIIx mode I'm shocked at how well their implimentation creates full 7.1 surround out of 2.0 and 5.1 (with high def) feeds.

I still eagerly await the report on the Outlaw separates, but for someone who wants the convenience of a reciever without sacrificing much of the musicality of a dedicated 2 channel separates system, it's the only way to go.

[meagain]

Ottscay - May I ask what you used prior to your Arcam or what others you've tested?

[meagain]

I've spent a goodly amount of time reading various forums, etc. discussing this. I only see raves about the sound quality. Overwhelmingly so. I'm intrigued and will seek to test one out against my AVR. I realize it will be a slam dunk as my AVR cost $550 online, but I question if it sounds 'that' good - it might cover my butt for 2-ch & HT all in one package.

I wanted to check out tubes as everyone raves about the effects a Peach tube pre, for instance, can have on any 1/2 way decent amp (SS or tube) and was hopeing this AVR-300's pre could somehow be bypassed for this use. Apparently not, though I'm reading some can (even integrated tube amps). Darned shame. (You'd think these things could be modded to do that though)... It can with the separate avp-700 but now we're talking $$$$ as I'd still need a proper pre-amp/processor for the AVP-700 for HT. I think.

Mark - You have pretty serious tube gear there, have a good ear, can describe well, and I trust your judgement enough to rely on your impressions between the tube system & Arcam. Tap tap tap.... []

[MarkBK]

I've spent a goodly amount of time reading various forums, etc. discussing this. I only see raves about the sound quality. Overwhelmingly so. I'm intrigued and will seek to test one out against my AVR. I realize it will be a slam dunk as my AVR cost $550 online, but I question if it sounds 'that' good - it might cover my butt for 2-ch & HT all in one package.

I wanted to check out tubes as everyone raves about the effects a Peach tube pre, for instance, can have on any 1/2 way decent amp (SS or tube) and was hopeing this AVR-300's pre could somehow be bypassed for this use. Apparently not, though I'm reading some can (even integrated tube amps). Darned shame. (You'd think these things could be modded to do that though)... It can with the separate avp-700 but now we're talking $$$$ as I'd still need a proper pre-amp/processor for the AVP-700 for HT. I think.

Mark - You have pretty serious tube gear there, have a good ear, can describe well, and I trust your judgement enough to rely on your impressions between the tube system & Arcam. Tap tap tap.... []

Actually, the AVP700 is a Preamp/Processor ONLY - what you would need with that is a Power Amp. It turns out the guy I talked to last night when returning [] the Arcam used to sell Klipsch and thought highly of the same models of Reference I do (volunteered the info on which models he preferred to sell and why BEFORE I told him which ones I had). He and I discussed the AVP700 at length. Apparently, Arcam kicks it up a notch by using higher quality parts in the 700 and it sounds even BETTER for music than the AVR300.

I too am curious to test against the Macs and suspect I may be surprised - The Arcam really is that good!!!!!!! I am going to first go back throught the Mac gear (it's been a few years since I did the rebuild on them) and test to insure that all is up to original operating specs. I also have some new JJ output tubes that I will use to test after some burn in.

Bear in mind that tubes and horns go very well together so, this will be most interesting to compare against the McIntosh gear....all I need now is 'da cash to proceed.

[meagain]

Oh yea - I got the 2 separates backwards. Meant the amp part.

So the Arcam went bye bye? Before you a/b'd with the macs? Oh darn. Well, assuming you fully know what your tube gear sounds like.... any impressions as to the differences, or are these 2 entirely different systems?

When do you get the Outlaws? Is that still on the 'to test' list?

[MarkBK]

Oh yea - I got the 2 separates backwards. Meant the amp part.

So the Arcam went bye bye? Before you a/b'd with the macs? Oh darn. Well, assuming you fully know what your tube gear sounds like.... any impressions as to the differences, or are these 2 entirely different systems?

When do you get the Outlaws? Is that still on the 'to test' list?

I just had it for the weekend so back it went. I was just having too much fun listening to the Arcam to set up the comparison to the tubes. I actually was intending to wait for the tube vs Arcam test until I get the Outlaw gear and then do it all with a few friends on a long Sunday test.

I plan on a night of tube listening tonight. I have a very clear memory and notes as to what detail I was hearing - at what time stamp on my SACD player - in what position in the sound stage,etc. So, I will be redoing the same selections of material - at the same volume as measured with Db Meter etc. I have a very strong suspicion of the results.........

I'm confident it will rile up many in the tube gear camp if I say it sounds as good or better, but if it does to MY ear - I will say so. Personally, after reading all your various posts over the khorns, xovers, etc - I think the quality of the Arcam sound will absolutely astound you.

A reviewer that has been in audio a long time - and who has a generally critical approach to audio in general - referred to the Arcam as "The Answer". He was using his reference system costing thousands more in comparison and was astounded.........for good reason. I thought I would disagree with him as I have on other matters in the past - I was wrong! I still have a hard time accepting a receiver as reasonable in size as the Arcam actually sounding as great as it does....it goes against traditional thinking.

The key here is the engineering and use of high quality parts - Arcam is an audio company first and foremost in their approach to product design. It shows. If you spend enough money, you can find many products that will astound you in terms of Sonic quality, but I think Arcam would have few peers at any level of product they offer. Unlike many companies - as they develop new technology - they apply it to whatever level of product they are working on - EVEN if is below the top of the line. Later, they then revise the flagship product and add the advances in design to it - quite the opposite of traditional product design.

Don't take my word for it - but DO bring one home and listen....I suspect it may be "The Answer" for you.

[meagain]

Are you sure you don't own interest in the company? []

I found & printed that 'Answer' review (manifesto). I almost don't want to read it for fear my brain will be influenced.

I read somewhere that the dac is the same in the separates? Not sure. Separates are pricey! Will you be also testing the separates after the Outlaw comparison? 300 vs. separates? Might be kinda interesting - though double the price so...

Which location did you get it from in case Hinsdale is either out or won't allow a home test? Maybe we can get it for the weekend. At least if I don't hear an improvement over my HK avr-435, I'll know I'm deaf and shouldn't spend more money on gear.

[MarkBK]

Are you sure you don't own interest in the company? []

I found & printed that 'Answer' review (manifesto). I almost don't want to read it for fear my brain will be influenced.

I read somewhere that the dac is the same in the separates? Not sure. Separates are pricey! Will you be also testing the separates after the Outlaw comparison? 300 vs. separates? Might be kinda interesting - though double the price so...

Which location did you get it from in case Hinsdale is either out or won't allow a home test? Maybe we can get it for the weekend. At least if I don't hear an improvement over my HK avr-435, I'll know I'm deaf and shouldn't spend more money on gear.

LOL I thought the same thing as I posted it! It's just my enthusiasm showing[:$]

Menifesto is a more accurate than not - almost too much info is supplied by J Peter - as ususal with him.

Hinsdale IS where I took it from, so if you go there it will be the exact one I was using! You must be closer than I think - I'm in Glen Ellyn.

Anyway - if you can - talk to Alan - He used to sell Klipsch - his brother still runs Heritage - so it would be a good match! We talked about the wolfson (??) DACs a bit - Arcam designed them and wrote the software in exchange for a limited time exclusive use.

If you don't hear a difference - you need to sell all your gear..............[]....the Khorns...I get first dibs...agreed?

[meagain]

Yes, you'd get 1st dibs on the khorns. We're at the tippy top of Downers. Highland & 88. Probably 10 min from you.

Hubby called & I suggested trying this piece out for kicks. I'm going to call them tomorrow to see what the rules are and figure out a good timeframe to test. Maybe Friday.

[MarkBK]

Yes, you'd get 1st dibs on the khorns. We're at the tippy top of Downers. Highland & 88. Probably 10 min from you.

Hubby called & I suggested trying this piece out for kicks. I'm going to call them tomorrow to see what the rules are and figure out a good timeframe to test. Maybe Friday.

Wow! we're practically neighbors! We are at the south end of Glen Ellyn - just a bit North of Butterfield and 53! We almost bought a house in your area, but couldn't find the right fit.

I can save you time on the rules: Loan for evaluation is done only on Saturdays - you come in about 5:00pm or a few minutes earlier - they copy Drivers License and charge a credit card for the full retail amount w/tax. You then get to keep it Saturday night and all day Sunday and Monday as they are closed on those days. They feel this gives the customer a fair chance to listen and still allows them to demo the piece in house until near closing time. Evalution piece must then be returned on Tuesday.

[meagain]

Yes - Very close!

Hopefully they'll still have it Saturday and there's not 100 local lurkers vieing for it.

I've actually been there before looking at Paradigms. Talked to an older gentleman with an interesting name. IF I'm thinking of the same place.

Wish they had tube gear.

So uh... This didn't come close soundwise to your pricey McIntosh stuff did it? I can't imagine. Conversely, if it isn't too shabby in comparison, I would think you could sell all your mac to me for a couple hundred bucks and have a nice tidy uncluttered look. []

[MarkBK]

Yes - Very close!

Hopefully they'll still have it Saturday and there's not 100 local lurkers vieing for it.

I've actually been there before looking at Paradigms. Talked to an older gentleman with an interesting name. IF I'm thinking of the same place.

Wish they had tube gear.

So uh... This didn't come close soundwise to your pricey McIntosh stuff did it? I can't imagine. Conversely, if it isn't too shabby in comparison, I would think you could sell all your mac to me for a couple hundred bucks and have a nice tidy uncluttered look. []

Meagain....Wake Up Your were sleeping a having a dream about McIntosch gear and having no where to put it! []

Okay, tubes are lit....DeeDee is in the room standing right in front of me.......uhhhhh first reaction, Whew! The tubes are safe!!!!.......but the Arcam IS awfully close - actually scary close!!!!! But....there is still a difference! The details are all there - bass might be a little more "boomy" on the Macs (somewhat a trait of the MC240 power amp, but also may be due to some caps that I know I need to update) and tighter on the Arcam - but still full on both. The tube comparison to Arcam is GONNA be REALLY interesting........I'm hearing more reverb on her voice than I noted....