How much sub is needed???

[chops]

FWIW - this isn't for me or anyone in

particular. I already know what I'm gonna do. Where I hope this would

go is for someone to say, "Well, you take the total volume of the room,

multiple it by the square of the hypotenuse (sp?) of your largest

window, then divide it by the geometric tolerance of a typical

interference fit fastener which will give you X. Then you take X, add

your age and there you have Y which equals the cone size."

I quit. [] [] [] []

Tom

Ok, here's the short answer...the reason these companies ask about

your room dimensions has absolutely nothing to do with the performance

of the driver. It mostly comes down to making the customer feel like

they're being taken care of. It is also so that they can suggest a model

that will be aesthetically acceptable - ie, not so big that the

customer gets pissed off (who wants a 20 cubic foot cabinet in a 10x12

room?). You aren't talking to an engineer on the other line...you are

talking to a sales rep.

Usually, when you call SVS to talk to them about your room and which sub would work, you ARE speaking to the engineers on the other end. It's usually either Tom V or Ron S (a.k.a. - the owners/engineers of SVS) They ask you how important aesthetics are to you, if at all, then go from there.

[jacksonbart]

FWIW - this isn't for me or anyone in particular. I already know what I'm gonna do. Where I hope this would go is for someone to say, "Well, you take the total volume of the room, multiple it by the square of the hypotenuse (sp?) of your largest window, then divide it by the geometric tolerance of a typical interference fit fastener which will give you X. Then you take X, add your age and there you have Y which equals the cone size."

I quit. [] [] [] []

Tom

L*W*$$*@/89 = X

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

((X-32)*45) = A

If A is greater than 1100 get a Velodyne.

Don't forget you can never have too much bass.

[Tom Adams]

Where I hope this would go is for someone to say, "Well, you take the total volume of the room, multiple it by the square of the hypotenuse (sp?) of your largest window, then divide it by the geometric tolerance of a typical interference fit fastener which will give you X. Then you take X, add your age and there you have Y which equals the cone size."

Like this? http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html#anchor_13193

BTW, what will you be doing in your HT or is there already a thread?

ROb

Alright, alright......so I didn't quit. []

Rob - DrWho and Jay noodled through a DIY design for me. In essence, it's dual ported subs each containing (2) 12" Dayton Titanic's with each cabinet having it's own 1000w plate amp. Haven't started it yet. Was hoping it would be about now, but I'm having some elbow surgery (bone spur) tomorrow so any woodworking will be a few weeks away. To be honest, the impatience of having a better sub in the HT is giving me cold feet about the DIY which has visions of SVS or Klipsch or Velodyne dancing in my head. [] And FWIW....I'm meeting with a guy today to determine what is needed to "tune" my HT room. This guy just did Greg Allman's house (he lives in the same town as I). More to follow........

And thanks guys for tolerating me and this thread. The answer I was looking for (room volume alone cannot predict anything) I got. But - in the process I learned a whole lot more. So I'm not gonna apologize for the thread. [] [] []

Tom

[DrWho]

FWIW - this isn't for me or anyone in

particular. I already know what I'm gonna do. Where I hope this would

go is for someone to say, "Well, you take the total volume of the room,

multiple it by the square of the hypotenuse (sp?) of your largest

window, then divide it by the geometric tolerance of a typical

interference fit fastener which will give you X. Then you take X, add

your age and there you have Y which equals the cone size."

I quit. [] [] [] []

Tom

Ok, here's the short answer...the reason these companies ask about

your room dimensions has absolutely nothing to do with the performance

of the driver. It mostly comes down to making the customer feel like

they're being taken care of. It is also so that they can suggest a model

that will be aesthetically acceptable - ie, not so big that the

customer gets pissed off (who wants a 20 cubic foot cabinet in a 10x12

room?). You aren't talking to an engineer on the other line...you are

talking to a sales rep.

Usually, when you call SVS to talk to them about

your room and which sub would work, you ARE speaking to the engineers

on the other end. It's usually either Tom V or Ron S (a.k.a. - the

owners/engineers of SVS) They ask you how important aesthetics are to

you, if at all, then go from there.

lol, well when you've got such a small company sometimes the owner is

the engineer and is also the sales rep [] I suppose you could argue

that it makes the customer feel that much taken care of..."hey I was

talking to an engineer" [] They wouldn't have turned DIY into a

business if they weren't good business men...it's the same thing PWK

did when he started klipsch. In fact, Klipsch wasn't more than 2 dozen

or so employees until about 10 years ago during the home audio boom...

Btw, Tom....the more I think about that DIY design you ended up with,

the more I think you're not getting the best bang for the buck out of

the amplification. In fact, it's more important to have too much

amplification that way you can push the extremes of the driver...so

basically you're going with two seperate amps, both of which are going

to clip before the drivers. I've been trying to figure a way around it

- and I think I might have found one (which also happens to be

cheaper), but if you're going the store bought route then I won't worry

about it.

[CAS]

(shaking his head Tom sighs and tries to figure out how better to phrase the question)

Ok....let's try this again..........

What I'm trying to determine is partially based upon a question that Velodyne and SVS and others asks when you quiz them for a sub recommendation. And one of the questions they all ask is: "What is the size or volume of the room?" To me, that indicates that the volume of the room provides a jumping off point, if you will, as to how much ?????? one will need.

I'm not so dense or stoopid that I don't know to listen to a bunch of subs or take measurements or buy the biggest you can afford or blah, ba-blah, ba-blah........

(sorry - I'm frustrated this morning)

Anyhow.....surely the rooms' volume is enough of a factor that it allows one to predict that a single 8" sub won't do the trick, but that a good STARTING POINT would be a single 12". Or that maybe dual 12's would be a better STARTING POINT start than a single 15".

Am I making any sense now or do I just need to quit while I'm ahead and go take more medicine??

Tom

Phrased that way there's absolutely no way to predetermine what will be needed. For a room of given size, one 12 of a certian brand will be worlds different than another 12 of a different brand, and this goes for all sizes. Also, volume of the room, shape of the room, enclosure size, amplification, furniture, and a thousand other things influence too much to assume.

If you want my general opinion with no data, I would say an AVERAGE room size with several openings would not be adequately covered without dual AVERAGE 12" drivers with AVERAGE enclosure sizes and AVERAGE amplification.

What you're not taking into consideration is that a 10" Radio Shack sub will cover a closet while a Sunfire 10" sub will cover a living room.

Result: There is no equation.

[DrWho]

(shaking his head Tom sighs and tries to figure out how better to phrase the question)

Ok....let's try this again..........

What I'm trying to determine is partially based upon a question that Velodyne and SVS and others asks when you quiz them for a sub recommendation. And one of the questions they all ask is: "What is the size or volume of the room?" To me, that indicates that the volume of the room provides a jumping off point, if you will, as to how much ?????? one will need.

I'm not so dense or stoopid that I don't know to listen to a bunch of subs or take measurements or buy the biggest you can afford or blah, ba-blah, ba-blah........

(sorry - I'm frustrated this morning)

Anyhow.....surely the rooms' volume is enough of a factor that it allows one to predict that a single 8" sub won't do the trick, but that a good STARTING POINT would be a single 12". Or that maybe dual 12's would be a better STARTING POINT start than a single 15".

Am I making any sense now or do I just need to quit while I'm ahead and go take more medicine??

Tom

Phrased that way there's absolutely no way to predetermine what will be needed. For a room of given size, one 12 of a certian brand will be worlds different than another 12 of a different brand, and this goes for all sizes. Also, volume of the room, shape of the room, enclosure size, amplification, furniture, and a thousand other things influence too much to assume.

If you want my general opinion with no data, I would say an AVERAGE room size with several openings would not be adequately covered without dual AVERAGE 12" drivers with AVERAGE enclosure sizes and AVERAGE amplification.

What you're not taking into consideration is that a 10" Radio Shack sub will cover a closet while a Sunfire 10" sub will cover a living room.

Result: There is no equation.

[DrWho]

gosh this forum is starting to get annoying....everytime I push quote I have to retype my reply....

[Jay481985]

Tom a good quote to go for subwoofers and most other machines/instruments. "To have precision, you must have power"

Put it this way, having an underpowered speaker will cause you to increase the volume which without absolute power will start distorting

If you had a car that you needed to rev to 7000 rpm every time you go from start to move the car, expect that engine to die quickly, hence race engines are new or rebuilt after the race.

If your drill was soo weak that it gets stuck in wood, expect sloppy holes that re not straight etc....

You need abundant power to do mundane things. Think of this, if your arm could only pick up the weight of your own are and say cup of coffee, would it be soo functional?

[Chris Robinson]

And yes - I know a single Danley will conquer all. Leave that monster out of this. That damn thing is like taking a popsickle stick to a gunfight.

]

Tom

Uh, I dunno ... uh, what will I do.

Tom, you already answered your question [:S]

Just get a TOP and be done with it []

[TheEAR]

gosh this forum is starting to get annoying....everytime I push quote I have to retype my reply....

No jokes. The new forums annoy the hell out of me,slow slow and slow.The old forums where much more user oriented.

I deserted this place since the switch,to the delight of many. []

[blake_mooney]

I never understood why people say you can never have enough bass. I totally disagree, a balanced amout that allows you to hear all the other speakers but still get a nice LF sound is obviously ideal. At least in my opinion anyway, I just prefer accurate, realistic sound, because in real life gun shots don't sound like earthquakes.

[DrWho]

I never understood why people say you can

never have enough bass. I totally disagree, a balanced amout that

allows you to hear all the other speakers but still get a nice LF sound

is obviously ideal. At least in my opinion anyway, I just prefer

accurate, realistic sound, because in real life gun shots don't sound

like earthquakes.

"Disortion"

It really is one of those things you gotta hear for yourself, and then

there's no going back once you have. It has nothing to do with

unrealistic exageration, rather accurate reproduction.

The LF needs of a person are very genre specific, but usually you can

find something in any category that calls for subsonic material. And

it's not like the subsonic material doesn't matter - many of these

songs are completely transformed by it.

[Jay481985]

Also blake_moon, we're talking about flagship model speakers here that need a subwoofer to match. Ok putting H rated (rated to 130 mph) just does not cut it for say a corvette. You up the speakers, you have to up the subwoofer as well. I am not sure why people put 4 subwoofers on the promedia ultras like in that thread but I find it amoral and unjust.