HD DVD on the Toshiba HD A1 (long)

[Enrico]

The 10db problem only occurs on Warner Bros. discs. I watch Serenity after Phantom of the Opera and had to lower the volume by 15db because it was too loud. Once Warner Bros. fixes the problem I think everyone will be happy with the sound. I think the DTS conversion sounded really great. Granted I do not have the best equipment, but I was very hapy.

I saw a noticeable difference in the picture quality of Phantom of the Opera, but I was not awed by the picture quality in Serenity.

[ottscay]

Grrrr, my player came and is set up, but no disks to play until tomorrow (I live in the middle of BFE, so I can't just run out and find a Best Buy or whatnot to get one). Some first impressions:

The build quality seems decent on the player, though nothing special for a $500 player (as compared to my Denon 2910). The callibration I did with the THX optimizer on my Denon held up perfectly with the Toshiba, which is promising.

The remote is a serious POS. It feels cheap, it works poorly, buttons are hard to find and don't always work, etc. Thank goodness for my universal remote...

The upscaling of DVD's (through HDMI) is pretty good, as reported elsewhere, but not as good as my Denon. Don't get me wrong, I would expect a DVD player to do a better job with DVDs than an HD-DVD player (especially one who's MSRP is higher than the Toshiba), but standard DVDs are all I have to compare at the moment.

I eagerly await with a properly calibrated TV and a decent pair of eyes...I will report back tomorrow when I've seen an actual HD-DVD.

[Born2RockU]

ottscay

~Which HD-DVD are ya playing first, tomorow ?

[MrMcGoo]

Is it possible to force the player to convert the DD+ soundtrack to DD for the digital outputs?

Seems to me going from uncompressing a lossy compressed format (DD+) then recompressing it in another lossy format (DTS) is just asking for lower sound quality then moving from DD+ straight to DD. The conversion from DD+ to DD is much easier as DD+ is built with a core of DD with additional extension data to make it DD+. I believe to go from DD+ to DD basically is just ignoring the extension data.

Shawn

The lower audio output on the Warner titles is NOT present on the Universal title Serenity that I have played. Serenity is DD+ with "advanced content authoring." With advanced content authoring the DD+ is decompressed then run through a DTS encoder with output at the full DTS bit rate. The DTS bitstream via coax sounds better to me than the 5.1 analog output of DD+ from the Toshiba. YMMV.

The manipulation of the audio to DTS should theoretically result in lower sound quality. So far, my impression is that full bit rate DTS is nearly as good as DVD-A in MLP via i.link. Phantom in particular has superb sound, even if I do have to turn it up to -15. Phantom has excellent audio detail and dynamics with the DTS output.

If advanced content is not used to master the DD+, then 640 kbps DD is supposed to be output via coax and Toslink. I would love to buy such an HD DVD.

So far all titles in HD DVD have used the advance authoring with VC-1 video compression output as 1080i video. The picture is stellar on my 1080i HD ready display (details in profile.) Some folks with 720p native resolution HDTVs report a less than ideal picture.

Warner has apparently admitted that Last Samurai and Phantom of the Opera were not mastered correctly for sound level. Hence there should not be any problem with low output from future Warner releases. I will keep the board informed about future titles that I buy.

There is a consensus on AVS froum on the following aspects of the Toshiba HD A1:

1. The remote sucks- it is not usable in the dark, is poorly marked and lacks basic features to contol the HD player like a resume feature. Warner titles do respond to bookmarks via remote. SD DVDs do have resume capability. Maybe a firmware update will fix the problem with no HD DVD resume. (Toshiba supplies a post card for firmware update disks. Internet firmware updates will be available via high speed connections via a menu selection.)

2. The boot time is a bit slow for impatient types like me. I'll get by, but I prefer faster reponse times.

3. SD DVDs look VERY good in 480p via component, provided the DVD had a good picture to start with. Upscaling to 1080i is only avalable via the HDMI output for copy protected SD DVDs. DVDs that have been ripped may be upscaled via component.[6]

4. Most video reports are very favoable with the excptions noted above for 720p native reolution machines noted above.

5. New titles will be a bit on the slow side at first. The HD DVD studios will be Warner, Universal eventually Paramount and probably Dreamworks. Sony will never release their pictures while a format war is taking place; same for Fox.

Bill

[ottscay]

I'll be watching The Last Samurai. The cinematography and colors are beautiful (though I hear the film grain is quite apparent), but mostly it's because I'm most familiar with the standard definition transfer, so it will be the best comparison.

Ok, I've actually done some serious dvd watching on the Toshiba tonight, and done a bit of tweaking on the THX optimizer. First, the good news: The default color rendition is a quite good. Also, I previously said that the scaler is not as good as my Denon, but after a few hours of watching different scenes, I no longer think this is true. The details are very crisp, comparing very well with, and in some scenes surpassing the detail (I did have to alter the sharpness setting of my tv during THX optimization to, well, optimize).

On the less than ideal hand, the blacks are crushed over HDMI. I presume this is because of the machines' inability to pass blacker than black through HDMI (this is often called the "HDMI bug", but that implies it is somehow the fault of HDMI, which is not true since it does not effect all HDMI players; it is a fault of the Toshiba machine). I consider this black clipping to be a serious deficiency for playing DVDs, since to compensate I either have to put up with loss of shadow detail or raise brightness (and so lose black level).

I do not want to blow this out of proportion; results may very depending on your set's gray scale tracking, etc. Even on my TV the image is not terribly objectionable, but for a number of years I did color correcting for print, so I am very picky about image quality (I love music, but I'm a more qualified picture-quality-phile than audiophile).

Anyways, I fully expect my 1080P/1080i ready tv will show the benefit of HD-DVD to good effect tomorrow, and assuming the image is good enough, I will either live with the slight degradation of dvd, or figure out a way to integrate both players.

While an avowed Blu-ray fan, I am a bigger fan of good images; can't wait to see what HD-DVD can do...I hope I can sleep tonight!

[ottscay]

Ok, I have spent about another 2 hours tweaking the video levels, then watched The Last Samurai twice. Obviously I will be watching more movies as they come out (and as Amazon ships them to me...) but I think I can comment intelligently on the format now.

First of all, HD-DVD looks gorgeous. On my 1080p 50" Sony the difference is obvious, especially in sharpness, and lack of artifacts. Color rendition is also improved. It looks far better than the Dish Network HD that I get, most especially in the lack of artifacting. The good news is that while I am still a Blu-ray fan, I will not be devestated if HD-DVD wins.

So, the format appears sound, although I have doubts that it will emerge victorious, in large part because of the flaws in the player itself. I ran into a number of occasions where disks (both SD and HD) paused, or stopped altogether, for no apparent reason (it wasn't scratches....I checked). On SD it's likely layer changes, but on the HD...?

The lag in the machine is obnoxious, and as mentioned already, the remote sucks. Also, the DTS bug is a real problem. I understand that we're waiting on HDMI 1.3 for hi-res audio, and it's not Toshiba's fault that we can't get the new formats easily, but as someone who spent a lot of money on a 7.1 surround setup, including a reciever that is really good at PLLx processing, I WANT my Dolby 5.1 at a minimum. Also, since the player doesn't play SACD and DVD-A, it's not really an option for me to use the analog outputs unless I want to give up a decent part of my classical listening. So for the time being I get worse audio with HD-DVDs then with DVDs.

For videophiles it's not all bad; I managed to minimize the black clipping problem by engaging the "enhanced black levels" feature; normally additional processing is not a good thing, but this works well and almost compensates for the black clipping. Others I've had over notice the difference, but no one but me finds it objectionable, so I doubt most would. Also, I am convinced that the upresing on SD DVDs is outrageously good for a player at this price point. while the dynamic rangne isn't perfect, the upscaling introduces far, far less artifacting (e.g. macro-blocking) then my more expensive DVD player.

So my tentative verdict is that the format is solid, even though the player has some problems. Ironically, while I'm more accepting of the format now, I am more convinced that it will lose. Between the HD-A1 and the almost identical variant that will be sold at Wal-mart, this is the player that most people will be exposed to. I think most average consumers will not be satisfied. TVs that are not properly callibrated will make the gain in picture quality minimal, and the frustrations with audio, remote, and general performance will annoy more than the benefits impress.

If Sony comes through with its delivery of the PS3 in November as promised, then HD-DVD has 6 months to win (and only 2 month before BD players come out), or else it will lose by virtue of mass market saturation. Since the first 3 months are going to be dominated by a sub-par machine that feels unfinished...you can see why I have doubts about how it will compete.

Also, the lack of studio support is going to hurt. There are 3-4 titles shipping right now, and none of them are must-have titles. They really, really need to release Kong, the Matrix Trilogy, or something to create some true demand. Much is being made of them almost selling out the first shipment of players (and that is smart marketing, so kudos to Toshiba), but it was only 10,000 units. If sales are going to be driven this summer (after the initial gee-whiz reaction of early adopters wears off) there will have to be some true event movies.

This format "war" has largely been one of incompetence; HD-DVD was delayed from Q3 last year to Q2 this year, sacrifice most of its time advantage, then the PS3 was delayed from Q2 this year to Q4 (hopefully), sacrificing the resulting mass sales of the (likely) most popular Blu-Ray player. Now Toshiba has released a player that has some really promising features, but not in a product that IMHO feels finished enough to really excite the average consumer, and without enough movies. At least now it's Sony's turn to screw up...

To conclude with good news, It appears that for those of you with good TVs that are callibrated, movies are about to get better looking, no matter which format wins. And eventually we'll get higher quality audio too, once the proper recievers become available.

[MrMcGoo]

The stoppages must be a bummer. My advice is to consider returning the machine. My Toshiba has never stopped except when I push the stop button.

Fingerprints are known to cause problems reading the disk due to the density of the information on the disk. Blu-Ray will probably have the same problem. They will probably have startup problems as well.

I must admit that Toshiba has shot itself in the foot. The reomte is terrible. I'm going to try a Harmony 880 today to consolidate remotes. Toshiba needed to finish development of the firmware before it released the machine.

Bill

[ottscay]

I will check for fingerprints, and I'll run some more dvds before I try to return it. I bought mine online (no choice, I live 3 hours from an electronics store of any size), so returning it would not be ideal.

I hope I hit the right tone with my review; I really am suprisingly impressed by how capable the format is (even if it's my second choice), and I'm sure that some truly fantastic HD-DVD players could be built, but I think Toshiba was so concenred with being first to market that they didn't handle some of the basics, and that may really cost them. Time will tell.

In the mean time, I'll be renting some HD-DVDs as they come out to keep enjoyng the awesome picture quality, but I probably won't be buying many.

[MrMcGoo]

Today I bought Doom, Apollo 13 in HD DVD and the Harmony 880 remote to run the Toshiba and the rest of my system.

I also gave user advice to the Best Buy employees about the Warner versus Universal releases. They were worried that the players had defective sound. They were relieved that it was a Warner only problem that will be corrected.

Ottscay: If your HD DVDs are clean but still have a problem with stopping, then try cleaning the laser pickup. (That may be high risk advice.) Perhaps a Toshiba firmware update will help, but I do not expect the firmware update on a CD for several months. If you have a highspeed Internet connection, then try for a firmware update over the Internet per the instruction manual.

So far Doom is playing perfectly. It will look better tonight in a totally dark room.

Apollo 13 is playing well from the start. I will report later on the quality. So far it is safe to say that Universal makes better HD DVDs than Warner based on the early releases.

Bill

[picky]

Bill: So the volume on the Universal discs is okay? What's your usual volume setting on the 59TXi for them? -Glenn

[Enrico]

I had the same problem with my player pausing and at one point stopping when I popped in the first movie "Phantom of the Opera." I immedietly did a firmware update and have not had a problem since. After I completed the update, the player told me the current software was up to date and that I did not need to update the firmware; however I have not experienced the problem since. I might just be lucky the player has not acted up again. If it does, I am taking it right back to Best Buy. I am sorry to hear you are 3 hours from an electronic store.

[Grateful11]

Those of you that have already bought the HD-DVD, do you think you'll also buy the Blu-ray player when it comes out? I'm kind of sitting on the fence. I hear that one company maybe trying to produce a hybrid HD-DVD/Blu-ray combination player if the higher powers don't stop them from doing so. I think I could get my wife to go for the HD-DVD now but in another 6 six another different player, well I don't know how she's going to handle that. I like the idea of Toshiba being heavy and built in Japan and not China like it probably will be in few months. I also like the upconversion comments I've been hearing over at AVS as I have close to 300 DVDs and it would be nice to get the most out of them. One other thing that has been mentioned elsewhere is the fact that since it uses a standard drive in theory you should be able to upgrade it and it has removable RAM. Also I found out that the Toshiba at WalMart does indeed have the HDMI cable included contrary to what was being reported earlier elsewhere. I happen to go into my nearest WalMart today just to see if they might have one but the head person the electronics, which actually knew what I was taking about, said sorry but their store seems always be the one to last on the list.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerokills/sets/72057594108018321/

http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx

Grateful11

[MrMcGoo]

Bill: So the volume on the Universal discs is okay? What's your usual volume setting on the 59TXi for them? -Glenn

Glenn,

I run movies like Doom, a Universal release, at -20 to -30, depending on who is at home. Phantom from Warner was up to -10. The Best Buy employees were turning Yamaha 5990s up to the maximum plus volume on Warner releases and still did not have enough volume. I talked to the TV and store managers about my experiences.

The employees at BB remarked that their best sound system was Klipsch. They had no idea that I have all Klipsch at home until I told them. They were surprised that the volume issue was so minor on my system. It helps to have high sensitivity speakers and good amps.

Enrico,

It is good to hear that a firmware update will make the hagups stop. That was very useful information. Thanks!!!

This is the first DVD player that I know of that is designed to have the owner update the firmware at home via the Internet.

Apollo 13 was excellent on HD, but it looks like WaMart will be the best supplier, not BB. BB gets $30 for the Universal releases and $25 for Warner's crap with poor sound. WallyWorld will be much lower I suspect, when they can keep product in stock with prices $5 lower. They also sell the Toshiba player in a completely black model and will later carry the RCA model also made by Toshiba.

Toshiba will penetrate so much of the market that Sony is going to be in a world of hurt IMO. The biggest constraint will be the ability of Toshiba and the studios to get product out the door.

My Toshiba was made in Japan. I suspect that the manufacturer will move off shore to ramp up production soon.

Bill