5.1 Home Theater Speaker Purchase - Purchase Advice and Help Needed...

[Johnny Canuck]

I am in the market to replace my old speaker system with a 5.1 (or 5.2) speaker configuration.

I can afford to buy ANY of the current Klipsch reference systems BUT I cannot afford to buy the THX System (aside from the subwoofer since I am willing to pay up to $4000 for a subwoofer(s).

The problem is, I don't know which speakers to consider.

For the fronts, I was considering either the RB/61/81 or RF 62/63/82.

For the center I was considering the RC62/64.

For the surrounds I was considering the RB61/81 or the RS62/83 (my surround placement options are listed below in #3)

For the subwoofer, I wanted one of the new subwoofers (like the TP-12) with onboard DSP selection but I could afford to buy a KW-120-THX subs (see #3 for room dimensions)

Below are my requirements:

1) [my pricerange and sound preferences]

I am downgrading from a $20,000 THX certified speaker system that is

better than Klipsch own THX system (but obviously a lot more pricey than Klipsch's system).

The reason why I am downgrading

is because quite simply, I can't afford the expensive amps I need to

keep buying to power my high end system (plus if a speaker ever died I

don't have the money to cover such a high end system so I need to get a

system more within my 'means'. My nearly-dead piece of crap car testifies to the fact I spent above my means on this THX system...).

I don't listen to music much but I do have a good ear for sound

fidelity. (I mostly watch DVD/ HD-DVD movies, some HD-TV and some Xbox 360 gaming)

I don't care for loud, overwhelming bass, but rather I look for clear bass.

Same when it comes to overall sound, I prefer clearer more accurate sound with good spatialization / sound dispersion.

I was trying to keep the new system price to around $5000 Canadian MSRP ($4500 US) for the 5 main speakers and up to $4000 Canadian MSRP ($3500 US) for the subwoofer so any of the reference speakers are within pricerange.

2) [my amplifier specs]

For the amplifier/receiver, minimally I can spend money on a Denon 3805 HOWEVER I might be able to go up to a 4805 in terms of price.

I don't mind buying a new amp ever 3 years as new technologies come out BUT my price limit every 3 years on an amp is around $2000 Canadian (e.g. the 3805 goes for $1200 Canadian and the 4805 can sometimes be found for $2400 Canadian).

On the 5 main speakers, on the other hand, I am looking to make a purchase that can last around 7-10 years without changing anything.

If I need to rethink my amplifier specs by perhaps augmenting it by buying a seperate amplifier (like a parasound 5.1 amp) let me know.

3) [my room dimensions and speaker placement options]

My room's cubic volume is 3000 cubic feet.

My listening location is 11 feet away from the TV.

My fronts will be placed on either side of the TV.

My center will unfortunately be placed on the floor but angled up to point to my ears at the sitting location. (I have a 62" DLP BUT the only center channel placement option I have is below the TV on the floor since my TV stand is full of components and the shelfs aren't big/wide enough to accomodate any decent klipsch center channel).

My rears will be about 2 feet behind my ears (e.g. listening location), pointing across the room at eachother > <

This is a diagram of my room:

------------------------------------------------------------

(Width)

===========

= F T.V. F =

= F =

= =

= =

= =

= C-C-C = (length)

= =

=R> <R=

= =

=[9 feet depth=

=to rear wall] =

= =

= =

===========

Legend:

Length = 26 feet 10 inches OR 322 inches

Width = 13 feet 8 inches OR 164 inches

Height = 8 feet OR 96 inches

Volume = 2933 Square Feet (total room volume)

C = Recliners (3 of them)

TV = TV

R = Rear Surround Speakers

F = Front Speakers

------------------------------------------------------------

The F represents the front speaker, the R shows the placement of my rears pointing to each other. There is about 9 feet of mostly empty space/depth between my rear speakers and the very back wall which I can't use because of a table and shelf occupying the space (WAF).

4) [floorstanding and surround speaker choice issues?]

Lastly, I don't know if there is any inherent advantage for me (based on my prefernces) going for the bookshelf speakers over the floor standing speakers (keeping in mind I am willing to buy any size subwoofer up to $4000).

I thought the floorstanding might be a disadvantage because of the height of the speakers drivers, whereas with the bookshelf speakers I could place the tweeter at ear height by buying the right height speaker stand. Any thoughts on this?

I don't mind going with the floor standing speakers for the fronts, I just want to buy the speakers that will offer the best sound experience for the needs I have...

Also, in regards to rear surrounds. Since I cannot place the rear surrounds to intersect my ears (where the dipole RS62's, etc. would have been ideal firing their sound in front and behind me) I am under the impression that a pair of the bookshelfs pointing at eachother across the room (At a few feet above ear level) would be good surround speaker option based on my room requirements?

Thanks for the help and advice.

[rlr267]

Others may differ, but if I had that budget, I would definately go with

two RF-83s for the front an RC-64 center and RB-81's for the

rears.

[oldbuckster]

Do you live in Canada? How close is American border? You have me confused but, if it was my money, and your going to buy a Sub woofer, I'd buy 4 Heresy 3's, sounds like you can afford them, and power them with a McIntosh receiver, or get in touch with Frzninvt, see what that lad has, he's on the forum, and I know he has a nice sub for sale. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

[Johnny Canuck]

Others may differ, but if I had that budget, I would definately go with

two RF-83s for the front an RC-64 center and RB-81's for the

rears.

Wouldn't the bookshelves (since I could place the tweeter at ear height by

buying the right height speaker stand) offer better sound imaging/spatilization over the floor standing speakers?

[Johnny Canuck]

Do you live in Canada? How close is American border? You have me confused but, if it was my money, and your going to buy a Sub woofer, I'd buy 4 Heresy 3's, sounds like you can afford them, and power them with a McIntosh receiver, or get in touch with Frzninvt, see what that lad has, he's on the forum, and I know he has a nice sub for sale. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

I live in Canada (in Vancouver, very close to the Washington State/BC border).

I only have permission to add up to 2 subwoofers, and I'd prefer subwoofer's with built-in amplifiers (e.g. non-passive) because I don't have the space in my A/V rack to use a seperate amplifier to power each woofer...

[Catharsis147]

Johnny,

The RB-81's are not comprable to the RF-83's; not because they are bookshelves, but because they do not use the same quality of materials and tweeter. You would get better imaging and spatialization from the RF-83's. I would go with the RF-83's since you can afford them. It is the equivalent of asking if the RB-35's would have better imaging and spatialization than the RF-7's, if you are familiar with the recently discontinued reference line. The RF-7's are simply better sounding speakers in every regard.

[rlr267]

Others may differ, but if I had that budget, I would definately go with

two RF-83s for the front an RC-64 center and RB-81's for the

rears.

Wouldn't the bookshelves (since I could place the tweeter at ear height by

buying the right height speaker stand) offer better sound imaging/spatilization over the floor standing speakers?

Ditto the statment by Catharsis above.

[oldbuckster]

Do you live in Canada? How close is American border? You have me confused but, if it was my money, and your going to buy a Sub woofer, I'd buy 4 Heresy 3's, sounds like you can afford them, and power them with a McIntosh receiver, or get in touch with Frzninvt, see what that lad has, he's on the forum, and I know he has a nice sub for sale. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

I live in Canada (in Vancouver, very close to the Washington State/BC border).

I only have permission to add up to 2 subwoofers, and I'd prefer subwoofer's with built-in amplifiers (e.g. non-passive) because I don't have the space in my A/V rack to use a seperate amplifier to power each woofer...

Johnny if you stay on here long enough there is a Klipsch dealer from Washington on this forum He'll join in sooner or later. I know he can help you.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT DEALERS NAME? He's on here alot.

[Johnny Canuck]

Johnny,

The RB-81's are not comprable to the RF-83's; not because they are bookshelves, but because they do not use the same quality of materials and tweeter. You would get better imaging and spatialization from the RF-83's. I would go with the RF-83's since you can afford them. It is the equivalent of asking if the RB-35's would have better imaging and spatialization than the RF-7's, if you are familiar with the recently discontinued reference line. The RF-7's are simply better sounding speakers in every regard.

Yup, I know the RB-35's and the RF-7's well (I've auditioned both and was for the most part pleased with the sound of both at their respective price levels although the RF-7 sounded very good on stereo sources and killed the RF-35's in terms of sound).

I just don't understand how spatialization and imaging works, since I always thought it was imparitive for the front speakers tweeter to be at ear level, so I always thought the floor standing speakers were at a big disadvantage when it came to creating a 'soundstage'...

That is why, for example, I figured that the RB35's would offer better imaging and soundstage potential then the RF35's because of their adjustable height...

[Catharsis147]

I dont know about the improved soundstaging bit for bookshelves, though I have heard the theory behind it. Luckily for you, I think your room size makes this problem irrelevent . Regardless, since you can afford the RF-83's, I would still go for those over any Klipsch bookshelf in the current reference line, BUT ultimately, you should audition the new RB's and the RF-83's yourself to determine what you like. I certanly enjoy bookshelves, and if you were leaning towards them, get RB-75's over the new bookshelves, IMHO.

[frankphess]

Do you live in Canada? How close is American border? You have me confused but, if it was my money, and your going to buy a Sub woofer, I'd buy 4 Heresy 3's, sounds like you can afford them, and power them with a McIntosh receiver, or get in touch with Frzninvt, see what that lad has, he's on the forum, and I know he has a nice sub for sale. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

I live in Canada (in Vancouver, very close to the Washington State/BC border).

I only have permission to add up to 2 subwoofers, and I'd prefer subwoofer's with built-in amplifiers (e.g. non-passive) because I don't have the space in my A/V rack to use a seperate amplifier to power each woofer...

Johnny if you stay on here long enough there is a Klipsch dealer from Washington on this forum He'll join in sooner or later. I know he can help you.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT DEALERS NAME? He's on here alot.

SoundBroker

Joined on 04-10-2004

Bellingham, WA USA

Posts 244

[oldbuckster]

Do you live in Canada? How close is American border? You have me confused but, if it was my money, and your going to buy a Sub woofer, I'd buy 4 Heresy 3's, sounds like you can afford them, and power them with a McIntosh receiver, or get in touch with Frzninvt, see what that lad has, he's on the forum, and I know he has a nice sub for sale. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

I live in Canada (in Vancouver, very close to the Washington State/BC border).

I only have permission to add up to 2 subwoofers, and I'd prefer subwoofer's with built-in amplifiers (e.g. non-passive) because I don't have the space in my A/V rack to use a seperate amplifier to power each woofer...

Johnny if you stay on here long enough there is a Klipsch dealer from Washington on this forum He'll join in sooner or later. I know he can help you.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT DEALERS NAME? He's on here alot.

SoundBroker

Joined on 04-10-2004

Bellingham, WA USA

Posts 244

That's the guy, Good Job Frankphess, get ahold of him!!!

[CAS]

You typed:

"I can afford to buy ANY of the current Klipsch reference systems BUT I cannot afford to buy the THX System (aside from the subwoofer since I am willing to pay up to $4000 for a subwoofer(s)."

and

"I am downgrading from a $20,000 THX certified speaker system that is better than Klipsch own THX system (but obviously a lot more pricey than Klipsch's system). "

Why don't you just sell your $20,000 system and you'll easily be able to afford the Klipsch THX system at less than half that?

[TheSoundBroker]

What...Huh...did somebody call me...ahem.

Sure, we can get you outfitted.

If you are willing to pay up to $4K for a subwoofer...boy do I have a subwoofer for you! Take a look at the Danley Labs DTS-20. Assuming you have the space...there IS nothing better with all due respect to the Ultra 2 package...which IS awesome.

Aside from that...the RF-83's are sweet as is the 64 center. We are also in the middle of doing a system with triple RB-83's up front behind a screen wall...can't wait to hear it (guy just picked up the speakers today...should be done in about 2 weeks).

In any case...check for a PM.

[Guest BobG]

Klipsch speaker horns have a 90 degree wide by 60 degree high coverage pattern so you don't need to put the tweeters right at ear level. You just need to be in the coverage pattern at your listening position. The output from the tweeter does not project like a laser beam.

The floorstanding speakers will all offer a more dynamic and enjoyable presentation than the bookshelf choices even though you're going to cross them over at something like 80 Hz. Go with floorstanding. My suggestion is RF-63's as they have the killer high frequency compression driver that's only found in the RF-83, RF-63 and RC-64. If you're going to invest in great subs, you can notch down from RF-83's in front and go with the RF-63's. The RC-64 center is an awesome performer and I'd strongly suggest you go with it.

For really clean subs you may wish to hold off just a little bit (I promise) longer and check into our forthcoming RT-10 and RT-12 which will have best-in-class DSP control and go very, very deep. Two RT-10's would be great.

Klipsch surrounds are NOT dipoles (sorry to shout). They have no null point as dipoles do and for that reason, you don't have to place them directly to either side of your listening position. Your rear speaker spot would work much better for RS-62's than for any bookshelf we make.

London Drugs in Vancouver will carry all these models.