chops Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hmm... I wonder how much of an improvement I'd get (if any) by going with two of the T-2000 SVC 15's over my current Dayton DVC 15's. Any idea DrWho? (sorry, I don't have the time right now to run the #'s myself, gotta get to work) [] Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 hello jay. It's been a while. The Tumult lives...but at less than 105 dB. Excursions loosened one of the tinsels. I'm reluctant to spend $75 to send it back and wait "who knows how long" for its return. I probably voided the warranty with the resoldering but i resigned myself to using it just for music. It would be too much stress on me trying to get this serviced/replaced etc. and too long a wait. I'm still compiling new photos of the Tumult and Brahma drivers...the scheme is "definitely" different...have a look: So yes, i am finished with Adire...that's where the tc-3000 comes in. I've been searching high and low for an available 15" driver with the right price and parameters. The original plan was to use the $700 JL Audio 13w7 in a 6 cu. ft. enclosure. I looked at Acoupower, RE, Digital Designs, Aurasound, Soundsplinter, Ascendant audio, Exodus, Eclipse etc. Most of these were either cost prohibitive (RE XXX with xbl^2 runs $1600) ,not good enough with the modeling vs. the price, or simply not available. I caught the TC-sounds website on monday and was initially astounded by the driver selection. I really want the LMS-4100 Neo but Kyle at tc-sounds said that it may be a while before it's released. I really wanted the linear motor topology but the tc-3000 has a sensitivity that i don't think the NEO motor will be able to match. They are using massive amounts of BL on the tc-3000 so there is no way you're going to boom this thing in a "sane" enclosure size. The LMS-5400 is the bomb...however, i want to wait and see what the sensitivity will be. Why would one need 3kW rms in a sub driver? Unless the coil was low in sensitivity. Who cares about power compression when the driver sports a 4" voice coil? Remember the RLS series subwoofers? Powerful yes...sensitive no. A huge enclosure was also required for the RLS series...i hope this does'nt turn out to be the case with the higher end offerings. From a DIY standpoint, the LMS-5400 does'nt seem cost effective at first glance. I think that a dual tc-3000 design would come in at the same price and deliver better performance...even without the linear motor. If the 82 dB sensitivity of the lms-4000 is any indication of what to expect with the LMS coil then the tc-3000 and "multiples-of", seem like the best way to go. You could put two in a 4 to 5 cu. ft. enclosure and do some serious damage to the inner ear! (11.3 liters of Vd swept). The lms-4000 does model well but it's only available in 10 and 12" sizes. Jay, that $850-900 is a big lick to take X2...good luck though! Thought you would've had your Tumults by now. ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 i personally would go with two tc-2000's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Blaw Blaw Blaw,Svs,tc sounds[] If we could only get David Wilson to sell us some of his modified drivers out of his watch dogs,Then you have a driver.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I can't seem to find any specs for the watchdog subwoofer, but at $10k I'm sure there are plenty of alternatives that will leave it in the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWOOFER Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Wilson Watch Dog you say,sure you pay 85% for the cabinet and the name.The 12" woofer is very impressive,has around 3inches of cone travel.May best a TV12,but there is only so much you can do with a single 12" woofer. Get a TC Sounds LMS5400 woofer 15 or18",an outboard Crown K2 amp,a Rane parametric EQ,build your braced to the max cabinet.You have beaten the Watch Dog with absolute ease.Now will it sound better than the Watch Dog,this all depends of your skill integrating the woofer/amp/EQ and cabinet as one. I saw and heard the Wilson,one mighty sub.But the price is inflated greatly by the name and finish and materials used for the cabinet.Not worth $11000 to me.Sell one for $6000 and its a very competitive sub,when facing $5-6K competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWOOFER Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I can't seem to find any specs for the watchdog subwoofer, but at $10k I'm sure there are plenty of alternatives that will leave it in the dust. The SVS PB2-Ultra is one that will match and best the Watch Dog,match its depth,sub bass quality and best it in output.For how much? Under $2500! And in DIY you can save a bit off the $2500.Or spend $2500 and get two sick TC Sounds 15" woofers and buy a powerful amp for sub duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Wilson Watch Dog you say,sure you pay 85% for the cabinet and the name.The 12" woofer is very impressive,has around 3inches of cone travel.May best a TV12,but there is only so much you can do with a single 12" woofer. Get a TC Sounds LMS5400 woofer 15 or18",an outboard Crown K2 amp,a Rane parametric EQ,build your braced to the max cabinet.You have beaten the Watch Dog with absolute ease.Now will it sound better than the Watch Dog,this all depends of your skill integrating the woofer/amp/EQ and cabinet as one. I saw and heard the Wilson,one mighty sub.But the price is inflated greatly by the name and finish and materials used for the cabinet.Not worth $11000 to me.Sell one for $6000 and its a very competitive sub,when facing $5-6K competition. TheEar I would not jump so fast as the specs for the LMS5400 has not been laid out yet as kranskoi has talk about with the fact that the sensitivy may be extremely low with 3000 rms watts needed. It may be the wow factor or just low sensitivity, who knows? I mean there is really only one amp that can power it that comes to my mind for that job, the Crown t-Tech or a single QSC to each driver. Also Meh the Wilson Audio... uses modified stock drivers. The Wilson XS used what the Aurasounds 18 inch woofer I believe the 9000 something at 900 a piece and the Wilson XS uses two? But somehow the enclosure and the ports not bump the price to 16000!!! The Watchdog looks like a TC Sounds derivative anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What did you do to the tinsel? Something like I said to make it heavy, like electrical tape? The RE XXX is the basis for the Tumult, Tumult modified for home, RE XXX was made for the car. The LMS 4100 Neo was meant for ported enclosures so I dunno why you want that unless you are ready for a really big enclosure with atleast a 6 inch port due to the 36 mm xmax on the sucker. I too am also afraid of the sensitivity when I saw the 3000 rms watts in the LMS5400. I will chose the look and wait till specs approach [] also the look and laugh at my wallet approach as I purchased the RF-83 instead of the subwoofer as planned (umm too good a deal and was one of the first to get them!) The thing that bothers me is the LMS is supposed to have less harmonic frequencies than hte regular versions which drives me a bit bonkers. The what if factor, I rather have a low distortion monster than a boomy monster. Well I do the look and wait factor as there is no pre order sale. Also on another note Ascendant Audio still has not released full specs of their Havoc! meh havov no more [] with these tc subs. Nice talking to you again Kramskoi, sorry about the tumult. BTW they did the magnet layout new for the adire drivers to actually cheapen production time as they share parts with each other. The Tumult just gets more magnets while the brahama sports the same looking motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWOOFER Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jay, TC Sounds is aserious company,and I am quite sure the top of the line woofer will have top of the line performance.The 3KW RMS rating is only the thermal rating of the voice coils,this could be used for short periods in a very small cabinet where back pressure is higher and when reaching excursion limits of the driver.400 ounce magnets !!! You will leave purple spots on CRT's over 2 meters away [] And with this woofer a Crown K2 bridged mono will provide mucho power to drive even ineficient designs that can handle the power. Cannot wait to see the full specs of these $800 plus woofers from TC Sounds,should send the competition packing. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 TheEar I know TCSounds and what they are I realized that the 3KW rating is thermal probably the iec number (hopefully I got the right acroynm) Just like my RF-83 that can handle 250 watts, 150 is about all it needs to get full volume. Yes the 400 ounce magnet scares me too..... Its what 25 pounds of magnet! I fear for my computer that would be in the same room.... I guess I should shield it if I ever get it. I mean going out and buying some sheet metal.... On the note of a Crown K2, the K2 is a good amplifier but really gets outclassed by the actively cooled amplifiers. The passively cooled K2 can only give out soo much. I mean the K2 bridged mono 4ohms can only give 2500 watts.... The QSC PLX2 3606 can give 2600 watts at 8 ohms. I am sure you are going to bring the fact that the qsc has a fan but really are you going to hear it when you're at 120 db at 20 hertz? Also Put it away if you are so afraid, like in another room. Also with your comment on sending the competition packing. I fear that as well, it might be a gift and a curse. You will either see some great newer designed coming from competition or they will give up. I fear for Ascendant audio and Adire at the moment with their lineup woofully lacking compared to the TC Sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jay,I think you're talkin to theWOOFER not theEar,it sure don't sound/read like theEar.theWOOFER,hasn't theEAR kicked your theREAR yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 heh long story short, TheWoofer was TheEar's sn when the forum changed way back and no one could log on. Then a coworker of Arthur's used the sn while he was on vacation to make a practical joke on him. Now TheEar uses TheWoofer's Sn at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Huh?Why would he not be theEAR at home,work or wherever?So do we all just get different names and post under them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 theear made thewoofer screen name to get onto the forum when it locked everyone out. For some reason Arthur posts under TheWoofer at work and TheEar at home, probably forgot to clean his cookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Yes...It is the great and powerful WoofEar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWOOFER Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 TheWOOFER account is no longer hijacked by my clown coworker who likes to get into pointless arguments.And yes my password is so bizzare for TheEAR use TheWOOFER at work. Now back to,woofers.TCsound is great for the industry as it pushes standards forward and forces the lazy competition to redesign and improve thier own products. [] In reality who here needs these mad displacement woofers? Who will fully utilize them? Nobody save for a few people who want to fill very large spaces with deep bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 no one needs the krell amps or the 4 RF-7 you have, or the dynaudio you have, getting my drift? Its all about wants and me wants it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWOOFER Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 no one needs the krell amps or the 4 RF-7 you have, or the dynaudio you have, getting my drift? Its all about wants and me wants it! Only have one Krell,four SimAudio,one Bryston,two ATI and that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 *deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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