Are You useing a Power Conditioner?

[Guest " "]

SET12

I have to agree with your overview.

The step down transformer to get the power to 220 from the utility companies line rate is about the size of a trash can. Its sits about 50 feet from my home, and services at least 50 homes in our development. There are approimately half a million folks on staten island. staten island is less than 10 miles in dia. The utility company that provides power to staten island, also provides it to the rest of NYC (over 11 million folks), and the greater nyc area.

[SET12]

SET12 I have to agree with your overview. The step down transformer to get the power to 220 from the utility companies line rate is about the size of a trash can. Its sits about 50 feet from my home, and services at least 50 homes in our development. There are approimately half a million folks on staten island. staten island is less than 10 miles in dia. The utility company that provides power to staten island, also provides it to the rest of NYC (over 11 million folks), and the greater nyc area.

Hi Speakerfritz,

You certainly live in a crowded area my god! No wonder you have power issues! Thanks for your assesment of my observations.

I see that the Home Theater power conditioner debut has a following for the

Belkin PureAV Power Console

I guess I could use for my AV stuff! I find it pretty generic it is nice looking and a good product name. There is not a lot of imformation about it other than covering the very basics of protection and noise filtration.

The Furman is another story and I'm very glad I found this product as it really works I don't think I would trade its performance for some conditioners that are many times its price! As they do not have the ability to source current like the Furman does!

SET12

[tigerwoodKhorns]

This is an interesting thread.Lots of good info.

I use a PS Audio P-500 powerplant on my frontend components and low power tube amps.My high powered SS amps(used for bass in my active biamp rig)are plugged into a Chang Lightspeed isolation transformer which is plugged into a dedicated line just recently installed.

I think the PS unit is a big improvement.It has some nice features,one I really like is it maintains constant voltage and cycles to my components delivering the mids and highs.

As for the SS amps plugged into the dedicated line.I cant really tell a difference but have only had it rigged this way for about 2 weeks.

The PS unit does work,it vastly improves the sound.This is not psycoacoustic BS and here is the story.3 years ago I purchased a Mark Levinson #39 CDP used.After about a week in the system I was very dissapointed with the sound.It was ok but just not right,not what I expected.Every review I read on this unit was either they loved it because it digs deep and shows all the flaws of the recording or they hated it for the very same reason.Well one night I woke up at 3am.I could not sleep so I fired up the computer and stereo.As I am surfing the web I start to notice that the sound is different...like really good,very clear and detailed.I am thinking to myself WTF.is this the same CDP?.Then it dawned on me that its 3:30am.I have always heard the power is cleaner at night but never really noticed a big difference.Over the next week I investigated this situation.I was on vacation and had a week to play around.Sure enough listening to the rig at day was ok but nothing impressive.Then at night the system transformed.I found my self listening more at night(late)or early in the morning.My conclusion was that this ML #39 likes clean power,just a different machine at certain times of the day.

The PS unit is rated for a 500 watt draw,my current draw with the Wavelength tube monos,ML #39,Rane active x-over and BagEnd integrator is 93 watts.

Within a month I found a used PS Audio P-500 and have never looked back.The sound of the system is now very good no matter what time of the day.Call this psyco bs if you want but you will never convince me otherwise.

Greg

Greg,

I have notice the same thing. I live in a quiet neighborhood, so there is no outside noise floor that I am hearing. When I stay up late, my system gets very clean. Usually at about 11:00 or later, which is when everyone is going to sleep and air conditioners are not working as much.

I use a Belkin power isolater, but that will not help with voltage. I have a Monster 3500, but do not use it right now because I need to get my equipement racks built. I bought the Monster because it was only $109 shipped w/ warranty.

Can anyone inform us as to a pro unit or industrial power supply like the PS Audio unit that can be bought used without the "Audiophile" upcharge.

Thanks,

Chris

[tigerwoodKhorns]

OOps. Didn't see the post on the Furman and Tripp Lite units. Looks like they are about the sam eprice but the Tripp Lite unit is rated at a higher power.

These look like the same animal as the PS Audio unit for much less. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Chris

[Jay481985]

SET12

I have to agree with your overview.

The step down transformer to get the power to 220 from the utility companies line rate is about the size of a trash can. Its sits about 50 feet from my home, and services at least 50 homes in our development. There are approimately half a million folks on staten island. staten island is less than 10 miles in dia. The utility company that provides power to staten island, also provides it to the rest of NYC (over 11 million folks), and the greater nyc area.

I see that big red building everytime I pass SI Expressway [] with that big smoke stack, I believe it is coal power..... Also we (Bayonne) supplies power to Staten Island I believe with our Cogen Power...... Burn anything powerplant.

Also I remember when my father owned a photostore there that one of those step down transformers during the summer went on fire and fell on someone's car...... white green flame with it melting into the guy's poor car.... Took the fire department 2 hours to let it melt, no water can be applied I believe

[LarryC]

These look like the same animal as the PS Audio unit for much less. Is this correct? Chris

I doubt it, although I only have experience with the PS Audio. It may depend on the particular model -- I suggest you look at respective websites and glance over this review of various power conditioners that someone posted over a year ago: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_power_conditioners.html.

The PS Audio is a power regenerator that synthesizes new, purely 60-Hz sine wave power. Some of the power conditioners do filtering of existing power, rather than re-create it. Others are a balanced arrangement that takes the higher voltage from between the two power legs that come into the house and brings it down to household voltage in a purified form, since noise can be drained away via common-mode rejection (or something like that!).

Based on what I've read and experienced, the PS Audio is a specialized item that has power output limitations, but works wonders with motor-driven components like TTs and CD players. Filters apparently work very well, too, but I've not made a direct comparison.

Larry

[DrWho]

I once thought power conditioners were a load of crap until I actually heard the difference in a situation that needed it...There was a measurable 20dB drop in the noise floor in all equipment.

One of the most important things is to have a dedicated audio line and have all the grounds between different sockets connected together as close as possible - and even better have a seperate dedicated grounding spike for that circuit as well. Again, about a 10dB drop in noise floor. []

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I once thought power conditioners were a load of crap until I actually heard the difference in a situation that needed it...There was a measurable 20dB drop in the noise floor in all equipment.

One of the most important things is to have a dedicated audio line and have all the grounds between different sockets connected together as close as possible - and even better have a seperate dedicated grounding spike for that circuit as well. Again, about a 10dB drop in noise floor. []

I understand the separate grounding spike but what do you mean by grounding sockets close together? They all go to the breaker box in series.

Thanks,

Chris

[DrWho]

You should have one grounding wire going to the breaker box and then have the ground wire daisy chained throughout the rest of the outlets instead of a seperate ground to the breaker for each outlet. I think I said that right?

[Guest " "]

This grounding best practice is subject to local code, as an example.....

I tried to find a good diagram to go over the grounding points being discussed.

Your local code (Home Depot sells a code book flip guide) will specifiy the min number of out lets per room, and how far apart they can be.

Having said that, normally a "run" from the service box consist of both phases of 120 and a ground for that run. Typically one phase is used for lighting in a room, and the other phase is used for outlets.

The outlets are typically grounded using the "runs" ground wire to the master bus ground point in the service box.

However, in the case of having multiple outlets in a junction box, wall plate, the grounds can be dasiy chained to other outlets within that junction box, provided they all use the same "run" for power.

The grounds can not be daisy chained across the room's outlet boxes......you need to use the "ground" connection included in each "run" of the line from the individual outlets to the service box.

[Duke Spinner]

a residential ground ..is a ground..is a ground...where ever it is ....

untill the service, when it, and the neutral are bonded together

the "grounded" conductor, is a non-current carrying conductor, it's purpose is for for safety only...... don't make it out to be more than that

[Duke Spinner]

a residential ground,......shouldn't show more than, say, 1/10 volt to the neutral..

if it does, the neutral is overloaded, or has high resistance

a commercial/ industrial neutral ... may show as much as 30 volts potential to ground ....

now, that kinda "noise", may play havoc with computers, audio, etc...

the cause is an unbalanced load, overloaded neutral ...

or electronic loads, ballasts, etc. that impose high frequency currents on the neutral

solution ...???

isolation xfmr

[SET12]

This grounding best practice is subject to local code, as an example..... I tried to find a good diagram to go over the grounding points being discussed. Your local code (Home Depot sells a code book flip guide) will specifiy the min number of out lets per room, and how far apart they can be. Having said that, normally a "run" from the service box consist of both phases of 120 and a ground for that run. Typically one phase is used for lighting in a room, and the other phase is used for outlets. The outlets are typically grounded using the "runs" ground wire to the master bus ground point in the service box. However, in the case of having multiple outlets in a junction box, wall plate, the grounds can be dasiy chained to other outlets within that junction box, provided they all use the same "run" for power. The grounds can not be daisy chained across the room's outlet boxes......you need to use the "ground" connection included in each "run" of the line from the individual outlets to the service box.

Speakerfritz,

What you said here makes perfect sense to me! especially avoiding the use of other earth ground connections from other breakers within another breakers run because if there is a serious fault issue with high current it could involve another location point to start a fire! At a second location rather than keeping it localized would be my take on the code you mention here and a very good point to mention and since some of use are into tube gear which in itself can be a fire hazard you point is well said! And I have witnessed even tube preamps starting on fire as well as having a friend tell me about his 200 watt/channel tube PP amp go NOVA! on him more than once!

Dedicated lines are great to use I once had the pleasure of wiring a listening room for this and used wire rated for 30 amps with two outlets out of phase with one another for some of the best dynamics I have ever heard from Acoustat Monitor 100 watt/channel Tube Power Amps I also had a seperate line for my front end componets!

BTW a friend of mine also owned a pair of these which started his living room on fire when they were in standby mode while he was gone! luckly his fire stayed localized enough for the fire dept. to arrive and save the house.

One Moral here be careful with tube gear! and shut it completely down when you leave!

SET12

[Guest " "]

" wiring a listening room for this and used wire rated for 30 amps with two outlets out of phase with one another for some of the best dynamics I have ever heard "

There IS something to this and you can take advantage of out of phase and balanced out of phase power with either a balanced power supply isolation transformer (120 in, 60-0-60 out, net 120 balanced) or if you know your way around 240, and have 240 power, 2 step down autoformers (120 in to 60 out on each phase, net 120 balanced).

The balanced isolation transformers come boxed as well and at various current levels.

Ebay had 2, 1000VA, 220 - 110 autofomers being offered as a pair for 50 bucks, no one bid on it.

[steamer]

This is an interesting thread.Lots of good info.

I use a PS Audio P-500 powerplant on my frontend components and low power tube amps.My high powered SS amps(used for bass in my active biamp rig)are plugged into a Chang Lightspeed isolation transformer which is plugged into a dedicated line just recently installed.

I think the PS unit is a big improvement.It has some nice features,one I really like is it maintains constant voltage and cycles to my components delivering the mids and highs.

As for the SS amps plugged into the dedicated line.I cant really tell a difference but have only had it rigged this way for about 2 weeks.

The PS unit does work,it vastly improves the sound.This is not psycoacoustic BS and here is the story.3 years ago I purchased a Mark Levinson #39 CDP used.After about a week in the system I was very dissapointed with the sound.It was ok but just not right,not what I expected.Every review I read on this unit was either they loved it because it digs deep and shows all the flaws of the recording or they hated it for the very same reason.Well one night I woke up at 3am.I could not sleep so I fired up the computer and stereo.As I am surfing the web I start to notice that the sound is different...like really good,very clear and detailed.I am thinking to myself WTF.is this the same CDP?.Then it dawned on me that its 3:30am.I have always heard the power is cleaner at night but never really noticed a big difference.Over the next week I investigated this situation.I was on vacation and had a week to play around.Sure enough listening to the rig at day was ok but nothing impressive.Then at night the system transformed.I found my self listening more at night(late)or early in the morning.My conclusion was that this ML #39 likes clean power,just a different machine at certain times of the day.

The PS unit is rated for a 500 watt draw,my current draw with the Wavelength tube monos,ML #39,Rane active x-over and BagEnd integrator is 93 watts.

Within a month I found a used PS Audio P-500 and have never looked back.The sound of the system is now very good no matter what time of the day.Call this psyco bs if you want but you will never convince me otherwise.

Greg

Greg,

I have notice the same thing. I live in a quiet neighborhood, so there is no outside noise floor that I am hearing. When I stay up late, my system gets very clean. Usually at about 11:00 or later, which is when everyone is going to sleep and air conditioners are not working as much.

I use a Belkin power isolater, but that will not help with voltage. I have a Monster 3500, but do not use it right now because I need to get my equipement racks built. I bought the Monster because it was only $109 shipped w/ warranty.

Can anyone inform us as to a pro unit or industrial power supply like the PS Audio unit that can be bought used without the "Audiophile" upcharge.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

I found my PS unit on ebay for $700,retail is over 2k.

I use the PS for my CDP,SET tube amps and the Rane active crossover.My Bryston SS amps get there power from a Chang Lightspeed that is plugged into a dedicated line.

As far as I know PS Audio is the only company that takes this approach to power conditioning.

Greg

[steamer]

maybe most people hearing something different at night is the fact that at 3:30 am its really quiet. Most acoustically correct rooms try to soundproof the room not so the sound leaks out but for the sound from the environment not to leak in. I remember a company showcased a perfect acoustic room that included a concrete floor that was floated on oil to reduce vibrations from coming from the floor.... A bit over the top but at night I suspect no road noise, airplanes, people moving, appliances etc makes the music much more cleaner. Also I bet there is some truth to the electricity being somewhat cleaner but........ I remember someone saying that most expensive pre/pro amps have their own circuitry to provide clean power to the unit.

Jay my rig is setup in my basement.The noisefloor is very close to the same all the time.I can't hear anything outside of my house.During the winter I hate it when the furnace kicks in,I have actually lowered the setpoint on my thermostat many times to shut the damn thing off.Hey I enjoy the heat my tube amps put out..lol.

Greg

[SET12]

" wiring a listening room for this and used wire rated for 30 amps with two outlets out of phase with one another for some of the best dynamics I have ever heard " There IS something to this and you can take advantage of out of phase and balanced out of phase power with either a balanced power supply isolation transformer (120 in, 60-0-60 out, net 120 balanced) or if you know your way around 240, and have 240 power, 2 step down autoformers (120 in to 60 out on each phase, net 120 balanced). The balanced isolation transformers come boxed as well and at various current levels. Ebay had 2, 1000VA, 220 - 110 autofomers being offered as a pair for 50 bucks, no one bid on it.

Yes, The wiring was rated for 30 amps I was using 20 amp breakers on them.

I don't care for Isolation Transformers unless they are big like paralleling two 3kw's for a low output impedance! And even then I'm going to wonder about the dynamics because the pole only less than 100ft away has a 50kw transformer think of it's output impedance!

The issue I'm concerned about is the lines phase! and not the noise but the lines actual power factor rate ( how inductive it is) which is why I like the Furman power factor corrector!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

This is an interesting thread.Lots of good info.

I use a PS Audio P-500 powerplant on my frontend components and low power tube amps.My high powered SS amps(used for bass in my active biamp rig)are plugged into a Chang Lightspeed isolation transformer which is plugged into a dedicated line just recently installed.

I think the PS unit is a big improvement.It has some nice features,one I really like is it maintains constant voltage and cycles to my components delivering the mids and highs.

As for the SS amps plugged into the dedicated line.I cant really tell a difference but have only had it rigged this way for about 2 weeks.

The PS unit does work,it vastly improves the sound.This is not psycoacoustic BS and here is the story.3 years ago I purchased a Mark Levinson #39 CDP used.After about a week in the system I was very dissapointed with the sound.It was ok but just not right,not what I expected.Every review I read on this unit was either they loved it because it digs deep and shows all the flaws of the recording or they hated it for the very same reason.Well one night I woke up at 3am.I could not sleep so I fired up the computer and stereo.As I am surfing the web I start to notice that the sound is different...like really good,very clear and detailed.I am thinking to myself WTF.is this the same CDP?.Then it dawned on me that its 3:30am.I have always heard the power is cleaner at night but never really noticed a big difference.Over the next week I investigated this situation.I was on vacation and had a week to play around.Sure enough listening to the rig at day was ok but nothing impressive.Then at night the system transformed.I found my self listening more at night(late)or early in the morning.My conclusion was that this ML #39 likes clean power,just a different machine at certain times of the day.

The PS unit is rated for a 500 watt draw,my current draw with the Wavelength tube monos,ML #39,Rane active x-over and BagEnd integrator is 93 watts.

Within a month I found a used PS Audio P-500 and have never looked back.The sound of the system is now very good no matter what time of the day.Call this psyco bs if you want but you will never convince me otherwise.

Greg

Greg,

I have notice the same thing. I live in a quiet neighborhood, so there is no outside noise floor that I am hearing. When I stay up late, my system gets very clean. Usually at about 11:00 or later, which is when everyone is going to sleep and air conditioners are not working as much.

I use a Belkin power isolater, but that will not help with voltage. I have a Monster 3500, but do not use it right now because I need to get my equipement racks built. I bought the Monster because it was only $109 shipped w/ warranty.

Can anyone inform us as to a pro unit or industrial power supply like the PS Audio unit that can be bought used without the "Audiophile" upcharge.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

I found my PS unit on ebay for $700,retail is over 2k.

I use the PS for my CDP,SET tube amps and the Rane active crossover.My Bryston SS amps get there power from a Chang Lightspeed that is plugged into a dedicated line.

As far as I know PS Audio is the only company that takes this approach to power conditioning.

Greg

Greg,

Do you have link to the Chang Lightspeed? I have a pair of Bryston 7B ST monoblocks on the way and was not planning on using any conditioner because they can draw so much current. I was just going to install two dedicated lines for them.

Chris

[steamer]

Chris,

Here is a link,I think I got mine from the cable co or the needle doctor.I am sur they are available on ebay for a good price.

Greg

http://www.changlightspeed.com/