My New Job as FOH Engineer

[Cornwalled]

Greetings,

I just recently took on a new job as a Front of House (FOH) engineer for Sherman Theater, a local Theater here in Stroudsburg.

www.shermantheater.com

For those interested, the website has a lot of history about it, but I won't bore you with it here. First off, this is NOT an advertisment for Sherman Theater, just me excited about my new job. []

Their sound system is pretty nice, a Yamaha PM 3500 52 channel console, Omni Drive electronic crossover. Their speakers are TCS, which I haven't encountered before, but they seem to do a very nice job. The website incorrectly lists the mains as being 4 way, they're actually 3 way. It's two trapezoidal cabs stacked on top of each other, with 15 inch, 8 inch, and some sort of HF horn, probably 2 inch. I'm assuming it's a coaxial arrangement, as they're not very tall. I also get to play with 8 x 18 inch subwoofers neatly hidden under the stage!

I got an in because I was the sound man for Pocono Lively Arts, a local group that puts on plays, but doesn't have a permanent venue. We had been performing in a local high school, but found it to be too expensive, and very limited in options. Thus we moved to the Sherman, and I immediately struck up a working relationship with the owner.

After the play, my first gig was three or four local highschool bands. The first few bands were fine, but the last band was just obnoxious. The venue is not that large, about 1100 people +/-, and very accoustically friendly, i.e. not much power is needed. However, they turn their guitar amps way up, and refuse to turn down, to the point were we can't even mix them at FOH. Mics become irrelavent, and the mix is shot to smoke. So after pointless negotiation over the talkback mic, the owner goes over to the board and switches off all the channels and monitors! I'm free! So we hang out in the lobby and talk til they're done their noisemaking..LOL.

Second gig rules! Two days ago, a Beatles tribute band called 1964 is performing, and I'm mixing monitors, as they brought their own FOH engineer. I'm off on stage left, on an Allen and Heath mixing Sennheiser in-ear monitors. They also plugged their guitar processors/effects into the system instead of using amps, so stage volume was way lower, sounded awesome! The band was real nice, and loved performing there, asked to do it again next year.

Last night was another group of local bands, around highschool age, give or take. After some initial scheduling chaos, we're off. Five bands, and we're only an hour late starting, not too bad right! First band comes on, no drums! Just a laptop, spewing out bass ridden distorted beats, an electric guitar, and bass and a guy SCREAMING into the mic. Oh my GOSH! No pitch just RAHHH!! Second band was better, some real vocals, and real drums at least. Third band about the same.

Fourth band had an awesome drum set, with poly heads that had an awesome tone that I could bring out, sounded badass. Gave the kick drum a boost around 40 and it kicked hard. Sweet!

Fifth band, and the lead singer, who is MALE has a leather SKIRT, short sleave black shirt, and leather knee nigh boots. Needless to say I was afraid..LOL. The keyboards some up with some doom spelling mist/chords, bass, drums start rumblin, and guess what? Yep! RAHHH!!!! More non melodic, non musical noise. But, to their credit, they had more energy and intensity than I could imagine anyone having!

I intially was wearing musician's earplugs that attenuate about 10db, and keep the freq. response pretty flat. But realizing what I was mixing was just noise anyway, I busted out the heavy duty foam plugs instead, and said goodbye to high frequencies. Once you have a basic eq/working mix set up in the beginning there's very little tweaking needed anyway. I further increased my reduction by putting a nice comfy set of over the hear headphones on. Owner comes up and asks, "What are those connected to?" I say "Nothing, just trying to drown out more noise" He laughs and walks away. He had no complaints about the mix.

All in all I'd say I'm happy, but my only concern is hearing loss. I hear of so many people that do this as a career having hearing loss. It seems to be the norm, and I don't want it to happen to me. Esp. since I'm only being paid $75/ gig right now. The earplugs are doing a lot, but is it enough I wonder?

Sorry for this HUGE post, but I was just excited, and had a lot to say, and figured some Pro Audio guys out there would enjoy this. Any comments/ stories, etc. would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Jon

[Guest " "]

congrats on your new job.

hearing protection question. it won't take much in terms of exposure to cause hearing loss.

most hearing protection are rated in db's.

plugs come in 2 types, foam, and plastic. both provide about 20db reduction in sound. issue with plugs are one of fit. if the plugs don't fit well, they won't help. also, foam ones are made to be diposable, the plastic ones should be cleaned. best bet is to have 2 or 3 sets. wash with soapy water, let soak in mildly clorinated water. if you get an ear infection due to dirty plugs, hearing loss is also possbile if not treated asap.

ear cups provide about the same 20 db reduction. issues with the cup types is fit. hair line and side burns are problems too. gaps left by not fitting well will reduce the effectiveness.

is it enough?

for non explosive noise, it will depend on the level of the noise and how close you are to it. A large drill can be a problem if you put your head to it while drilling as can be a table saw if you use one in closed quarters.

for explosive noise, one of the above is not enough. best bet for explosive noise is to use both the ear plugs and the cup type protectors.

[Jay481985]

Importance of Hearing Protection

Hearing loss is a function of exposure time, the average sound level, and the

peak level of very loud sounds. Exposure to excessive noise from industrial

machinery, heavy construction equipment and vehicles, power tools, aircraft,

gunfire, motorcycle and auto race tracks, dental drills, sporting events,

fireworks, rock concerts, marching bands, and music from a player's own

instrument or nearby instruments can cause hearing loss depending on the

intensity and duration of the noise. Some persons seem more susceptible to

hearing loss from high-level sound than others.

Some workers obviously need high-attenuation earplugs. Shipbuilders, flight crew

who stand behind jet aircraft on the flight deck, and army tank operators

usually fall in this category. Such individuals can't get enough attenuation

for proper protection even with plugs and earmuffs combined. But, many

industrial workers can be adequately protected with as little as 10 dB of

attenuation: the majority of eight-hour equivalent noise exposures fall between

85 and 95 dB. Some of these workers receive earplugs that provide too much

attenuation, and as a result they do not insert them deeply in their

ears because they can not hear speech clearly enough. These persons risk

hearing damage, but have compromised so they have auditory awareness of sounds

around them.

The cochlea has two types of hair cells, inner and outer. The outer hair cells

appear to provide the ear's sensitivity to hear quiet sounds. Inner hair cells

appear to provide all the information to the brain. It has been suggested that

high-intensity noise causes extensive damage to the inner and outer hair

cells; long-term lower-level noise causing the same audiometric loss may show

predominately outer hair cell loss. What this implies is that the type of

noise a person is exposed to may determine the severity of

communication problems h/she eventually demonstrates.

Tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and temporary hearing loss can occur from a

single concert, sporting event or sudden loud noise like a firecracker. In rare

cases, permanent hearing loss results from such auditory insults. Even if a

temporary hearing loss recovers over a period of hours to days, there is a risk

that repeated exposure to loud noise will result in permanent hearing loss.

It is important that hearing protection is carefully selected for each

individual, based on the intensity level, duration, and type of noise exposure.

Allowable Weekly Sound Exposure To Be Safe

Recommended Maximum Weekly Exposure (NIOSH, 1998)

Sound level (dB)

Exposure type

No protection

Using ER20s

60

Conversation

SAFE

-

80-85

Noisy restaurant

Vacuum cleaner

Average factory

40 HRS.

SAFE

88

Circular saw

Loud party

Motorcycle

20 HRS.

SAFE

94

Subway

Riding mower

5 HRS.

SAFE

97

Live band

2.5 HRS.

40 HRS.

100

Sporting event

Chain saw

Snowmobile

1.25 HRS.

20 HRS.

112

Blues bar/Rock concert

5 MINS.

1.25 HRS.

115

Ambulance siren

2.5 MINS.

36 MINS.

140

Jet engine

Gun shot

Firecracker

INSTANT LOSS

Above 125 dB you are at risk for any period without maximum

protection

Allowable Daily Exposure (OSHA and NIOSH)

source level in dB

85

88

90

92

94

95

97

100

105

110

115

120

OSHA

16

8

6

4

3

2

1

1/2

1/4

1/8

NIOSH

8

4

1

3/4

1/2

1/4

OSHA and NIOSH values listed above are given in daily exposure limits. According

to the OSHA standard, a person can be exposed to a 95 dB environment for 4

hours before risking hearing damage. With 10 dB of protection that person can

be exposed to 95 dB for 16 hours per day. NIOSH values are more conservative.

For maximum protection, foam earplugs, muffs or other hearing protection

devices are recommended.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20-ihp.aspx

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx

[colterphoto1]

Great gig, congrats man. Yes hearing loss is definitely a concern. If you feel the ringing the next day, chances are you're incurred some loss. I wear EAR tapered foam type plugs. Make sure to insert according to manufacturers directions. You can buy them in industrial packages of 200 pairs from Lab Safety Supply company.

Or have the custom type made by an audiologist. These types might give more even reduction at all frequencies and me a more comfortable fit because they are molded to your ears.

Happy mixing! You and DrWho should talk. Your gig sounds like a lot like his.

Michael

[DrWho]

Hey, congrats on the new gig! Sounds exactly what I deal with here on

campus too (one gem every once in a while amongst a crap load of noise).

A lot of highschool and even college bands are young and immature in

the ways of music and one thing I like to do is have a quick pep talk

and discuss how we're going to have a great show. Most of these guys

spend all their time jamming in the garage at full volume and have a

total blast and then they aim for that same effect when performing

live...which is exactly what they shouldn't be doing. A good

band needs to be focused on the crowd...not just performing for them,

but interacting with them. And they need to get away from the wall of

sound they associate with audio bliss. All of the great bands of the

past weren't big hits because they were awesome loud musicians (sure it

helped), but it was the stage presence and blah blah blah - I'm

preaching to the choir [] Anyways, I have the short chat and cross my

fingers...about 50% of the time it results in a stage volume that is

reasonable when it was obnoxious during sound check. The other 50% are

just headstrong idiots where turning off the system and walking away is

the best thing you can do for the sound.

I think the only difference between our gigs is the fact that I'm in

college town and have to mix for exotic events like 500 pound belly

dancers...[+o(]

One thing that sucks about mixing is you've always gotta keep a positive attitude and keep the musicians happy...which can be hard when you wanna unplug their amps and beat them over the head []

[DrWho]

Btw, I think those safety recommendations are a bit on the strict side...100dB is loud, but not that loud and you can certainly listen to it for more than 30 minutes per week.

[colterphoto1]

Good stuff there Doc. I like the pep talk idea and that "WE'RE" going to have a great show- hopefully lets them know you're on their side. Remember to motion to the awesome stack of PA and how you can help them if they allow you to do your job.

Do you keep a talkback mic so you can give them a word or two between songs if needed?

Good man!

Michael

[WMcD]

Smile. Chicago Blues Bars gets a special category; more to the dangerous side.

Let me say I believe the issue (not just Chicago bars, of course) is more dangerous than the numbers suggest. More accurately, the guidelines are only that.

In my experience, music venues can be very loud and my ears are driven into distortion. Some spitball earplugs is a big improvement in sound. In my view, the ears are telling us something; i.e. "don't do this to us."

Consider the variables. The distance to the band varies and so I wouldn't be surprized if the gourpies up front are getting 20 dB more than even the middle seats.

Alcohol is probably another function. Did you ever notice that speakers are found to be blown out after loud drunken parties. The same is likely true of ear damage. People have a couple, don't hear as well, crank the volume. And you can see how that progresses.

A "few" years ago I was at a disco type bar. Ouch. I asked (shouted to) the manager to please turn it down so I could talk to my date. He flatly refused. "Nobody will dance." There is the approach that young people go there to meet others, dance, drink, etc. Cranking the sound is part of the culture. The owners care about hearing damage about as much as they care about hangovers. We the audience operate under similar rules, admittedly. And getting closer to the music starts making more sense as the evening goes on.

I believe that there is cumulative damage, if minor, even before you get tintinius. Nothing in our evolution has prepared us for the levels of sound present in the industrialized age.

This is not to be a prig. The overall goal is to keep your hearing in tip-top condition to enjoy the music as much as possible, as long as possible. A trip to the Kingston Mines is counterproductive.

Gil

[colterphoto1]

Just for comparison's sake, I used to work at the Speedway Lounge, attached to the Dollar Motor Inn- total el cheapo drunk tank next to seedy hotel right off the interstate access to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The kind of place where the 300 pound bar maid plunges her hand down deep in a galvanized tub of iced down cans of Bud to serve you.

One day our lead guitarists strap broke, he asked over the PA if anyone in the audience had a knife so he could carve a new hole in it. There was this huge SHa-Shing noise as half a dozen guys flipped their switchblades.

Anyway, after a while they instituted a pat down policy at the door

because of the number of fights. We techies used to have to use our bar stools

as weapons because the sound and light boards were right next to the

main entrance.

So they'd search people to see if they came in with a gun or knife.

If you didn't have one, you were issued one at that point.[]

M

[tychicum]

Well if you are wearing headphones to decrease the sound anyway ... get a pair of those electronic noise cancelling headphones. The technology has come a long way in a short time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise-cancelling_headphone

It may be the "Best of Bose"...

... "anti-sound" ... LOL

[Jay481985]

Little known fact was bose made I believe 20000 headphones for the airforce to use to reduce the noise. The airforce then cancelled the contract due to little difference in noise cancellation vesus non noise canceling headphones. They had so many so they marketed them to the consumers and said it was military grade which was not wrong but not sincere. Also inear headphones provide a better protection than any active noise cancelling headphones as the in ear ones block all noise as opposed to bose's which blocks the 1000-3000 hertz range predominantly.

[Cornwalled]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do talk to the bands before each set, mentioning stage volume, etc. and it seems to help. I tell them "If you can't hear yourselves, I can bring you up in the monitors" and that seems to give them confidence. They're worried if they turn down, they won't hear themselves.

I do keep a talk back mic, which is useful, especially if they start to run over, I can tell them "Okay guys, last song", and very helpful during sound checks.

To be honest, I'm a little wary about continuing this job, because I definetly have more sensitive ears than most. More than anyone I know. I believe it's from something that happened a few years ago.

When I still lived with my parents, I used to be huge into guitar, and had two Gibsons- ES-333, which I still have, and a Les Paul Studio (sold it). In my little 14x14 bedroom I had a 100 watt Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier trem-o-verb with a Peavey 4x12 cabinet. I don't think I need to say how loud that thing was. Sounded like crap unless you were pushing 110 db out of it, I would guess. In the year that followed I went through various half stack rigs, and eventually moved into an apartment, at which time I owned two. I ran them in stereo with chorus/delay. The sound was AWESOME, but deafening. I also had a huge interest in Ozzy Osbourne, and other hard rock/metal, and before I knew it, I had a very considerable ringing in my ears/limited HF hearing that lasted for days. I finally woke up and cut the volume, and after a few days, my HF returned, and ringing subsided.

However, ever since then, I have had consderably greater sensitivity to noise. What happens is my ears don't seem to "clamp down" when higher volumes are present, instead they just feel fatigued immediately, and pain/distortion ensues.

This means I need really aggresive hearing protection. Air tools are unbearable, electric saws, any kind of loud power tools. Even the "KA-CHING" of a hand powered staple gun can be uncomfortable if too close.

As long as the volume is low, everything is fine, but just no tolerance to anything over say high 90s.

So to do this live sound gig, I'd probably be looking at 25db of hearing protection, I would estimate, to be comfortable for 6 hours, which is the average time I'm there, what with sound checks, setup, etc.

So, I have to decide if this is worth it. The upside is that it IS money, which I need desperatly, but how much is it worth to be in pain? Not $75/night, which is what I'm getting.

-Jon

[Jay481985]

the etymotic earplugs are unique due to a filter based system that instead of foam earplugs which block some of the hearing range and is not linear at all the etymotics are more linear across the spectrum which means music does not suffer like the cotton in the ear that just blocks the highs.

[Cornwalled]

Jay,

I'll have to check those out. I'll talk to my dad about them tonight.

Thanks!

-Jon

[DrWho]

Might I suggest taking a trip to your local ENT (ear nose throat specialist). I remember reading a pamphlet while in the waiting room that talked about what you're experiencing and I think there is some stuff that can be done too (which is rare for ear issues). Ears tend to be one of those things where the longer you wait the less chance of recovery there is.

[Jay481985]

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20-ts.aspx

relatively cheap for what they protect.

[colterphoto1]

Same basic design as above, from EAR company. about 20 db reduction, various styles

http://www.earinc.com/p1-reusable-reusable.php

[Jay481985]

Same basic design as above, from EAR company. about 20 db reduction, various styles

http://www.earinc.com/p1-reusable-reusable.php

actually they are the same thing

[colterphoto1]

I thought it was diff companies, maybe diff pricing or ??

[Jay481985]

Its different companies but it still has the name of the er20... Probably just oem... pricing the same but color is different. The beige is standard but the worker version is different. Etymotics website though has more colors