Some Stuff For Sale

[6foot8]

phummel@rcid.dsd.fl.us

Please correct, I see that it is unclaimed and I can cancel this first erroneous payment.

Below is the correct email address.

Thanks Michael.

pattie_hummel@rcid.dst.fl.us

[colterphoto1]

phummel@rcid.dsd.fl.us

Please correct, I see that it is unclaimed and I can cancel this first erroneous payment.

Below is the correct email address.

Thanks Michael.

pattie_hummel@rcid.dst.fl.us

Payment Sent To:

pattie_hummel@rcid.dst.fl.us

Account Status:

This recipient is not yet registered. PayPal will send

an email to the recipient explaining how to open an account and receive

your transaction.

[colterphoto1]

I also sent one to .DSD, please check paypal for your correct account information. I don't know why I keep getting this error message.

[6foot8]

I don't know why either. Apperantly both email addresses are on the account. She is talking with them now to see what the issue is. I'll let you know when they get it fixed.

Thanks again.

[colterphoto1]

Okay, I cancelled the one for the .dsd because it looked incorrect. The one that is as I posted is still up there for when you get the PayPal situation resolved.

If for some reason that doesnt happen today and the exchange with Mike does not take place, no big thing. We will get it sorted out and I still want the Thorens. No hurry anyway.

Thanks

Michael

[6foot8]

Michael,

For some reason our account is hosed up. Even though pattie_hummel@rcid.dst.fl.us is a valis address and she can get emails there, the phummel@rcid.dst.fl.us is the only address she can use to logon to her computer. These means that she can't confirm the new address and we can't retrieve the payment either. Both of us are way to stressed out now to do anything further with Paypal. So please cancel all payments and just mail me a check.

1733 sunset drive, clermont fl 34711

thanks

[6foot8]

Michael,

For some reason our account is hosed up. Even though pattie_hummel@rcid.dst.fl.us is a valid address and she can get emails there, the phummel@rcid.dst.fl.us is the only address she can use to logon to her computer. These means that she can't confirm the new address and we can't retrieve the payment either. Both of us are way to stressed out now to do anything further with Paypal. So please cancel all payments and just mail me a check.

1733 sunset drive, clermont fl 34711

thanks

[6foot8]

Michael,

The Paypal account has been closed. Please let me know if you still want the Thorens. If you do I will deliver it to Mike this morning and you can just mail me the check.

[colterphoto1]

Sure, that works for me. I can get on email now. Please send your mailing address.

Michael

[6foot8]

eric hummel

1733 sunset drive

clermont, fl 34711

I am calling Mike now and will get it to him this morning. Our offices are with a few minutes from one another. He should have it by lunch.

Thanks and sorry about the paypal thing.

[lwhaples]

Michael,

The Paypal account has been closed. Please let me know if you

still want the Thorens. If you do I will deliver it to Mike this

morning and you can just mail me the check.

Eric,

I feel for on the

PayPal thing. My wife sent me a gift via PayPal for my Birthday. But, I

have to use it via Ebay. Can't just send it to someone for payment.

Good Luck! I also think that the way you are helping Forum members is

Great!

Larry

[6foot8]

Well thank you Larry...hey if I can't trust Michael Colter then who can I trust.

[Mike Lindsey]

OK... the table is in my posession now. []

Eric did a real nice job disassembling it and boxing it up. I will take it out of the box over the weekend and see if I cant get some pics of it, and will box it back up. Then I need to get a 2^nd box to double box it and a smaller box for the dust cover. I have plenty of styrofoam to pad the corners. I hope to have it boxed by the weekend and itll go out on Monday.

Mike

[colterphoto1]

wwwwooohoooo - on the WAY!

Take yer time Mike. Make her nice and cozy (a turntable is a 'she' isnt' it?)

And thanks for your kind comment about trust Eric.

Michael

[Mike Lindsey]

Well, I took it out of the box and it does indeed look real nice and was packed very well by Eric. It does have new RCA cables that are made by Viperwire and appear to be about 7 feet long.

The cartridge is a very nice Bang & Olufsen MMC 20EN. I found the following on this cartridge:

MMC 20 Cartridges

Prior to the release of MMC1 - 5 cartridges, Bang & Olufsen had the following MMC range of combined styli and cartridges:

MMC cartridges were available with standard ½" mounting brackets, or with easy plug-in, lightweight connectors. These enabled you to mount MMC cartridges onto non-Bang & Olufsen arms. The cartridges plugged directly into Beogram pickup arms without additional mounting gear

MMC 20 S was a stereo cartridge with a spherical framed diamond

MMC 20 E was fitted with a framed elliptical diamond which has a high polish

MMC 20EN had a naked elliptical diamond, mounted on a tiny tapered cantilever

MMC 20 CL utilised a Contact Line naked diamond mounted on a single crystal sapphire cantilever. This shape ensures maximum groove contact. This was the most highly-specified cartridge in the MMC 20 range

By 1979 - 80, Bang & Olufsen's cartridges were represented by the MMC 20 series. MMC stands for 'Moving Micro-Cross'; the patented moving-iron principle upon which all B&O cartridges were based. This unique system employed a cross-shaped armature which, among other advantages, guaranteed exceptional stereo separation since each channel moves on a separate axis.

The job of any pickup cartridge is to transform the record's physical profile (groove modulation) into corresponding electrical signals (which are then amplified or enlarged by the amplifier and turned into audible sound waves by the loudspeaker.

A cartridge must perform three separate and exacting tasks if it is to do this job successfully. It must function mechanically (the movements of the stylus in the groove); it must function magnetically (using the physical movements to create changes in a magnetic field); and it must function electrically (using the changes in magnetic flux to generate an electrical current). At each stage, one type of energy is transferred into another, quite different, type. And the transfer must be perfect, with no energy lost and none added from extraneous sources.

No cartridge will ever reach this ideal unless the Laws of Physics can be repealed. However, by understanding the relationships between the three transfer stages and continually applying refined engineering techniques, B&O's belief was that each stage of cartridge improvement would bring each successive cartridge closer to the ideal. The MMC20 series therefore represented the closest that modern technology at that time, could possibly afford.

MMC20EN had a naked elliptical diamond, mounted on a tiny, tapered cantilever. Recommended tracking force: 1,2g; Effective Tip Mass: 0,4mg

This info can be found here: http://www.beoworld.co.uk/mmcpickups_2.htm

Here's one for sale on eBay right now new in the box:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BANG-OLUFSEN-MMC-20EN-NEW-IN-THE-BOX_W0QQitemZ160006860855QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And from the cartridge database:

Type
Moving Iron

Output (1Khz 50 mm/sec)
^3mv

Freq Response
20Hz - 25kHz

Output Impedance
?? ohms

Load Impedance
47k ohms

L/R Separation 1kHz
> 20db

L/R Balance 1kHz
< 1.5db

Stylus Tip
Nude Elliptical

Cantilever
Tapered

Dynamic Compliance
^{30 x 10-6cm/Dyne}

Static Compliance
???

VTF
1.2gm

Mass: 4gm

So this appears to be a very high compliance cartridge (30) and would require a low mass tonearm to mate up with it. According to the Tonearm database the Thorens TD125 MKII tonearm has the following specs:

Manufacturer

Thorens

Model

TD 125 Mk II

Year Introduced

1972

Effective Mass

16.5 gm

Effective Length

230 mm

Overhang

14.4 mm

Headshell Offset

22 degrees

Mounting Dist

215.6 mm

Cartridge Mass

gm

VTA Adjustment

Mounting Patt

Headshell

Removable

Price

Null Points

54.4/117.9

Notes

Eff Length
230 mm

Eff Mass
16.5g

Overhang
14.4 mm

Offset
22 degrees

Mount Dist
215.6 mm

Cart Mass

VTA Adjust

Mount

Headshell
Removable

Null Points
54.4/117.9 mm

Price

and 16.5g would be considered a high mass tonearm (my SME 3009 is only 12.5g and is considered medium to high mass). I haven't done the math here but this does not appear on paper to be a good combination in regards to the Resonance Frequency test on the Hi Fi News test record. The Denon DL-103 would be a great cart for that arm (however, you would need a step-up transformer).

According to Eric he paid $250 new for the cartridge back in the mid 80's and it has very little use on it. I think you did real good, Michael, and will be very happy with this table.

Mike

[scott0527]

I didn't even know B&O made regular mount cartridges. That biggest problem with some of the older B&O turntables is that you can't mount a regular cartridge on them.

That stock Thorens tonearm looks kind of klunky but I think it performs a lot better than it looks. I have the same arm on a 160 and a 145 and even with a relatively inexpensive cartridge, it shines. I was using my 160 with some form of Audio Technica cartridge (8008 I think) for a couple of years and loved it.

You're going to be thrilled regardless of what cartridge you put on that thing. I'd start simple, get to know the turntable and work your way up. That's the great thing about a turntable like the 125. You can upgrade to better arms and cartridges as you see fit and not worry about the table not keeping up. It will.

By the way, I am CRANKING some Pearl Jam right now on my 125. It's runs through some Mac into my Khorns. I'm getting kind of pumped up!

PS. Mike hows the 124? Running like a champ?

[Mike Lindsey]

PS. Mike hows the 124? Running like a champ?

You can't believe how good this thing sounds right now! The DL-103 now has about 50 - 60 hrs on it and it just kills! I just finished playing Blood, Sweat & Tears (S/T) on Super Disk (Direct-Disk Labs) and this album sounds incredible! One of the best recordings I own. Found it in the local record shop for $15 and it's a bargain at that price.

Also finished spinning Steely Dan's Gaucho, Rickie Lee Jones' The Magazine and Bruce Springsteen's The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle, and all 3 of these albums sound fantastic (especially the Springsteen)!

I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this TT! Just gets better everyday! []

To stay on topic, I have repacked the table, and will be getting a couple of boxes tomorrow for the dustcover, and the double boxing of both the table and the dustcover. Hope to get it all packed up by tomorrow night with time permitting.

Mike

[colterphoto1]

Mike and Scott,

So based on that info, would you suggest that I sell the cartridge out and purchase a low compliance unit to better mate with the arm?

If I follow, we currently have a lightweight arm and a stiff suspension cartridge (that's what high compliance means, right?) I'm wondering if this combo might have difficulty tracking on an LP that had any slight warps to it.

What models of cartridges would you recommend for the 125? I want to do this right.

Michael

[SilverSport]

Is this place great or what??? I am constanly amazed (not surprized though) at the amount of truly giving people on this Forum from the top on down...they can take someone who has little knowledge or understanding of a certain concept right on up to gaining that knowledge and understanding and even to purchasing (often at a discount no less) and enjoying the new concept. (I am speaking for myself of course but I am sure this applies to others...[]right??? )

Speaking again for myself, Thanks people...this is truly an enriching and enjoyable experience.

Bill

[colterphoto1]

"So this appears to be a very high compliance cartridge (30) and would require a low mass tonearm to mate up with it."

I reread this and am confused. If the tonearm is high mass, as the 125's is, then wouldn't that require a high compliance cartridge? I'm thinking of compliance as the 'springyness' of the cantilever suspension. In auto terms a heavier car would need stiffer springs, a lighter car with still springs would be a horribly bumpy ride (not good for LP's), and a heavy car with light springs wouldn't handle very well either and might bottom out.

I really liked my Stanton line of cartridges but perhaps times, tastes, and my hearing have changed. I used them mostly because the very short cantilever was good for back-cueing, something I did when recording LP to cassette. I'm thinking the longer, more delicate looking cantilevers might have better stereo separation and high frequency output.... Am I getting this stuff right? It's a brave new world for me, as Silversport pointed out.

An alternate solution to selling the B&O and replacing it (probably an additional $100), would be to keep the B&O and spend more dollars on the SME 3009 tonearm, which would really bring the unit up to snuff.

But if it will operate and I won't be harming my LP's any, I'll follow my own advice on not modifying for a bit and just enjoy it as is. There's nothing like tearing a new toy apart on the first day, right?

Thanks

Michael