Altec 902-8B Diaphragm Check and Muddy Blues (PIX included!)...

[Duke Spinner]

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[Deang]

Everything imparts something to the sound.

It sure doesn't take much for you to come unglued.

[chops]

Everything imparts something to the sound.

It sure doesn't take much for you to come unglued.

Sure they do, when measured with analyzers and occiliscopes, but not necessarily noticable by ear, unless you're using absolute junk equipment. And don't even bother starting crap about Behringer products. I've heard it all, and I don't give a rats arse what anyone has to say about them.

"It sure doesn't take much for you to come unglued."

Then don't be so stinking arrogant with your laim responses! If you don't like it, then don't post in my threads.

[johnyholiday]

will there be charts? ,or now your against measurements ??perplexing

[Deang]

It's not hard to hear the effect of a new piece of a gear added or replaced in a system. You might need instruments to tell why you hear a difference, but you sure don't need them to hear it.

You reported a difference in the sound after going with the active setup, yet now claim neither the Rane nor Behringer EQ "adds anything to the sound". I said bullshit because you can't have it both ways.

Anyone that contradicts you gets the Neanderthal treatment. I'm done, and I have a feeling it's just a matter of time before you find no one replying.

[chops]

You reported a difference in the sound after going with the active setup, yet now claim neither the Rane nor Behringer EQ "adds anything to the sound". I said bullshit because you can't have it both ways.

Anyone that contradicts you gets the Neanderthal treatment. I'm done, and I have a feeling it's just a matter of time before you find no one replying.

Obviously, going from an old and outdated passive 1st order design to an up to date active 4th order design is going to make a difference. That's a GIVEN.

What YOU were referring to was noise, hash, distorsion, whatever injected into the signal. You said it youself a while back when you bitched about the "op-amp sound". Now you're telling me you're going to deny that?!

When you said "op-amp sound", you were referring to noise, etc, etc..., NOT sharper crossover slopes and different crossover frequencies, which will of course alter the sound.

I find myself having to re-explain myself to you numerous times over the same things, and quite frankly, it's getting rather boring! Everybody seems to praise you and for the life of me, I'm trying to figure out why. Everytime I get stuck yacking to you, I feel more and more like I'm talking to a bumbling hill-billy.

The reason YOU get the "Neanderthal treatment" is because of your outlandish, RUDE, one-worded and arrogant remarks that are totally uncalled for. But because the new guy (me) steps up to you, then I'm suddenly the local @$$hole.

There's so much favoritism going on in this forum, and all the old-timers on here get away with murder that it's impossible for anyone to carry on a decent conversation and/or thread without someone like YOU, Duke Spinner and johnyholiday (by who the way makes absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever on anything he writes - lay off the weed already!) that it completely sucks coming on here.

And ask me if I care if anyone replies to me or this thread. In case you haven't noticed, I haven't been on here much lately in the last few weeks anyway. Everytime I am, I just get ripped to shreds by idiots anyway, so why bother?! I have much better things to do then waste away on this forum.

[Duke Spinner]

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[Duke Spinner]

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[jwc]

Chops,

I think it would be unfortunate if you stopped posting. I refuse to take any sides as the fire is going here.

However,

You have made a lot of changes. I mean a lot in the past few months. That means you have also spent some dough. Back to this point in a sec.

I take a good bit here on the forum with a grain of salt. There are rules, guidelines, objective data, hard principles, and so forth. Then there are the things that just work well eventhough there is sloppy support for it. I can't explain it.

Now I am quite sure that my ears aren't the sophisticated kind that picks out purity, accuracy and other snobby audio lingo as something to be cherished. I have listened to multiple opinions about "this and that" and I sometimes am embarrased that I can't seem to make the same appreciation. Then I start to think that my ears might have a craving for "crude" acoustics. Hell, I don't know.

So hear this. Continue to report results, experiences, know how's and so forth. Also continue to ask questions. I am more of a listener on the forum now as opposed to before. I have "eatin some crow". I have found contradictions of my own when looking back at past posts of mine.

One thing I have done...I think is speak of some of my failures. I have spent a ton of money over the last year in a half to further my interest of learning and to answer things for myself.

Now I have never heard an active crossover unless it was there and didn't know it. I also have no reason to doubt any of your opinions. Now I must say that I have seemed to love 1st order passive networks if the parts are right. There is also some driver issues coming into play here as well but that is a long, complicated topic that i'm not capable of delivering well.

I also have tried the 2 way option with some poor success vs three way. Maybe "active" is the way to make it right or maybe I need a 2" driver. Hell, again, I don't know.

In conclusion, I took your opinions of the active setup with a "grain of salt". However, I TOOK IT.

Now I have a favor to ask of you if you have the guts. Because this is hard. Back to all those changes you made. There has to be a report of the bad stuff. So here goes:

1) what do you feel is the plus of the 902 over the K55?

2)Give me some pros and cons of that Pyle horn vs the K600 vs the Altec 511.

3)K77 vs the CT125 with the passive networks

4)maybe this was said before: adding that 0.5 inductor to bandpass the K55 down to 4500Hz. Did the midrange stay to your liking? No principle here, just what did you hear.

Don't leave. Tell us what you think. If 6 months now, you change your mind, admit it. If you opinion stays the same...tell us. If you waisted some money on going on principle but it got worse, tell us.

Anyway, Don't go as far as saying PWK got it all wrong. You would have to go to a different forum for that.[]

Happy listening. I've had all the scotch I can drink for tonight.

jc

[DrWho]

I've had CD horns (K-600 and Pyle Pro horn) and

didn't like either one, so why would I want to go back to another

one?

Ok, ew? And not to go way off topic I would be curious to know how they

were implemented. There is nothing inherant about CD (with the proper

EQ) that requires it to sound bad.

I thought beaming occurred at higher frequencies, not lower.

Not to mention that when I listen to my stereo, I'm sitting right in

the middle, so if there is any beaming going on, it isn't affecting me

anyway.

"most feasible solution to the problem"

I

was unaware of any problem I was having other than the rolled off top

end. You've seen the plots I've posted before of my system. You know

how flat it can be, so if anything, the room is helping more than it's

hurting.

I worded that sentence funny and you took it the wrong way. Beaming is

happening in the higher frequencies, yes...but just because you "listen

on-axis" doesn't mean the off-axis sound doesn't affect what you hear.

And last I checked you weren't in an anechoic chamber? I can guarantee

that in your current configuration that an ETF will show the lower

frequencies lingering around way longer than the higher frequencies.

Really, +-3dB in the higher frequencies is hard to hear (especially to

be noted as a problem)...+-3dB for 300 ms isn't. And like I already

mentioned, you can help minimize these effects by soaking up the

off-axis at the lower frequencies (basically flattening the power

response).

Btw, your measurements are only showing you one-dimension of the

puzzle...funny how you complain about measurements but hold so much

faith in the crude ones you take.

[Deang]

In-room power response is something I haven't understood too well myself until just recently. I never realized before how much off-axis response contributed to the total sound we hear -- even if sitting right in front of the speakers. People used to talk a lot about polar plots, and I never understood what the big deal about those were until a couple of weeks ago.

When you said "op-amp sound", you were referring to noise, etc, etc..., NOT sharper crossover slopes and different crossover frequencies, which will of course alter the sound.

That was in a different thread, and I wasn't really talking about noise and distortion. What I was talking about was the way the music was presented -- basically in comparison to my all tube setup. In this thread I was objecting to you saying those units didn't add anything to the sound. I understand that it sounds different because you changed crossover points and slopes/alignments. When I said "...you reported a difference in the sound after going with the active setup..." , I was really thinking about what you reported. My point is really just this: If you matched all the settings in your active set up to the passive set up you had, it wouldn't sound anywhere near the same, and any comments regarding anything in either set up "not adding anything to the sound" wouldn't be true.

I find myself having to re-explain myself to you numerous times over the same things, and quite frankly, it's getting rather boring!

I've asked you to clarify things before, but I don't think I've ever asked you to repeat something in a thread that you already explained. Now, as far as re-explaining things in general -- I'm pushing 13,000 posts, so you won't get any sympathy from me.

Everybody seems to praise you and for the life of me, I'm trying to figure out why. Everytime I get stuck yacking to you, I feel more and more like I'm talking to a bumbling hill-billy.

I'll get you 'The Bumbling Hillbilly Dictionary' for your birthday.

The reason YOU get the "Neanderthal treatment" is because of your outlandish, RUDE, one-worded and arrogant remarks that are totally uncalled for. But because the new guy (me) steps up to you, then I'm suddenly the local @$$hole.

No, the reason you go Neanderthal is because that's the only way you know how to respond when someone says something critical. I've seen your responses to other people, and you do it all over the forum. You call people names and stomp around like a 3 year old. You talk about favoritism, and it's kind of funny actually -- because most anyone else gets banned for that kind of behavior. If us 'old-timers' get away with anything, it's because gentlemen know how to insult each other with some class and without blowing a gasket. We take it all in stride, you take it like a personal assault. Grow up or get out.