GeorgeC Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Wanted to get some feedback from you 2-channel fans, as I'm guessing you might be more familiar with Naim Amps. Please tell me if this is crazy. I have an Rx-7 system (almost broken in), and was running them off my Denon AVR-5700 receiver. I got some Acurus amps (A125x5, A100), as they are quite a deal these days, and was using the 5700 as a pre-amp. My goal was to complete the system with an Outlaw 950 preamp, and sell the 5700. However, I haven't been able to warm up to the Acurus amps yet. They've only had about 30 hours, so I realize that they're not broken in yet (I believe I heard they need at least 100 hours). I'm going to keep breaking them in. As of now, they're a little more revealing than the 5700, but they have no airiness to them, and not much low end yet. Music sounds like it's coming out of a box, instead of suspended in front of me, and I can't get excited about the overall sound. Do you think break in will change this significantly? Here's the Naim part. I decided to swap the front channels from the Acurus to an old Naim Nait 2 integrated amp I had. I doubt that little box is even rated at 30 watts (its successor was 30 watts). Turned it on. Like we say in LA - Whoaa Dude! Night and day. Such emotion in the highs and mids, such airiness, and suddenly the bass woke up from a coma and came roaring to life (I tried the bass with my "Bass - Lo and Slo" novelty CD, and I can now say - the RF-7 has no problem outputting bass). I was almost in tears at everything from Bach to Bluegrass to "Respect". These amps love the Rf-7s! I definitely can't afford to go out and buy 4 new Naim stereo amps for home theater (new ones are a fortune). But I could sell the Acuruses and get 2 more used Nait 2s or 3s. Is this insane? These amps are over a decade old and at best 30 watts. I know they love music. Has anyone tried them for home theater? They don't seem to have much trouble going loud and low. Is this a crazy idea? Any opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 George, See its like this,NAIM is in another class.If I had a choice I would nab the NAIM and sell the Acurus if I could find other used NAIM amps. For music the NAIM will be the equal to much more beefy amps and the NAIM have this detail and air you are talking about.Very nice and will not pierce your ears like the LOTTSA WATTS and NIET FINESSE amps. Not to say the Acurus is a bland,lifeless amp.Acurus are good amps,just not great.When I was buying my Denon the salesman there showed me the Acurus and claimed it would outperform my Celeste.HA Was he ever red when he heard my Celeste,night and day. So the make the story short he asked if I wanted to sell one of my Celeste.Well NO No way To get back to NAIM.NAIM is a very respected name in High-End audio and they value quality over quantity.Again large powerful amps can be very musical but most often then not they cost a small fortune(for example the Krell FPB600). Ah why do I continue? Get the NAIM if you value music and want to keep your amp(s) for years and years. NAIM lets you enter the world of pure music. You ears did not lie,dont lie to yourself get NAIM And you have the Klipsch RF-7's!What are you waiting for?30 watts is more then you will ever need,the RF-7's blast the house with only 10 watts. Nuff said TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 TheEar(s), Thanks, I was hoping you'd respond to this, as I'd read a comment you'd made before on Naim amps. Thanks for your advice. I wasn't knocking the Acurus (and in all fairness, they're not broken in yet), but like you said, the Naims are in another class (and another price range when new). Thank you, theears, for reminding me to trust my ears! Anyone interested in a less than month old Acurus 125x5 and/or A100? They have less than 30 hours and really are mint (boxes and manuals, too) I've got a couple of Naim Nait 2s, I think I'll hunt down two more used ones. I had one of them with my Cornwalls in the office, but I think I'll use my old Fisher 500c tube amp with that now. 30 watts really does go loud on the RF-7s! But I was more surprised at how much additional bass I got, too. Gotta get back to my music now, then I'll try a movie! thanks, theears George By the way, all, I just got an email form DTS, they're having a huge 5.1 sale - 5.1 Cds for $7.95 and DVDs for 12.50. Sounds like a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 theears, I have one more question for you. I've got a Sunfire True Sub Signature, too. I was wondering how you felt that compared to the SVS Ultra? Any opinion? thanks George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 George, Some may say solid state amps sound the same.You know,I know and many know its not true.(I know who wont like this,and I like it ) As you heard 30W of very high quality just disposed of a 100W plus amp(and not just a mass market reciever here!). I hold NAIM and PassAleph(now PassLabs)as the musical wonders of the SS world.Who needs tubes when you have NAIM or Pass?These will outperform tubes and be just as "musical" as the lamp amps. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 George, Sunfire Signature!The Sunfire Signature is a great sub,and can compete with the Ultra in many ways. Down to about 25Hz both the Ultra and the Signature will fill even a large room with wall shaking bass. The Signature can keep up with the RF-7's with no problems until it gets painful. Under around 20Hz and below the Ultra will top the Sunfire. For movies and almost any(but the deepest pipe organ notes)the Sunfire Signature is THE best compact sub on the market.Not even the Velodyne SPL1200 or HGS12 can knock this 13" cube of sub bass out. I have the Signature,Mark II,Junior and the Carver Knight Shadow in the same room as my Klipsch R series speakers.All for HT,and yes all the Sunfires(including the Carver Knight Shadow)work as ONE.ONE mean wall flexing sub human HT foundation. Now what do you think about the Sunfire Signature? TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 No way, I've found a lot of differences between SS amps, sometimes night and day. I agree about the Naims being so musical, I think they're the closest to tubes of the amps I've heard. I had some Quad amps, and I liked their smoothness, but definitely prefered the Naims. About the Sunfire Signature - there's so much power in that little box, it's almost scary. I'm almost afraid to get near it sometimes, afraid it'll blow up, cause it does sound that impressive. It's unbelievable it's coming out of that little box. I'd just never compared it to many quality subs, but it has never disappointed me. I played Phantom Menace last weekend with the RF-7s and Sunfire, and a Klipsch LF-10 sub in a 16x12 room (it's small) and boy, there was nothing that wasn't shaking (and one thing did fall). It was great. I've got someone who wants to buy the LF-10. The Sunfire alone fills the room spectacularly as is, and it does keep up easily, but I was considering if maybe then replacing the LF-10 with an SVS Ultra. Now, your sub setup does sound like a dream setup - unbelievable!! That's bass heaven. I have to give the new Klipsch 15" sub a shot too! Heard anything yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 theears, I've got a single old Bryston 3B amp, and you're right, Bryston is awesome. Built like a talk, power to spare, 20 year warranty - and transferable at that, and spectacular sound. But I only have one, and two Naims, so I'd have to buy fewer Naims to go home theater with them. Do you think the Bryston would be a good sub to power the SVS Ultra? I was using it with some Quad ESL-57s, but could make a great sub amp, do you think it would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Most of the Amps you're talking about have a balanced and unbalanced connectors...I'm just intrested to know what the difference is? I think the balanced connector is an XLR, and the unbalanced is standard banana style..Why the different style? Also, most of the Amps you have listed are Class A and others Class AB. The PassLabs X150 can switch between the two....What's the differences and are there specs for the two classes? Thanks DrPyro ------------------ Receiver: Denon AVR-3801 DVD: Denon DVD-1000 Front: RF-3's Rear: RS-3's Center: RC-3 SubW: KSW-12 This message has been edited by DrPyro on 11-13-2001 at 01:10 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 DrPyro, All good questions, but I'm not a good one to answer them. I got these amps used over the web, and they came highly recommended, and they sound great (Naim, Bryston, Quad), but I'm no amp expert, I just know what sounds good to me! Naim and Quad had hard to find connectors (maybe not to audiophiles). I don't know which are balanced or unbalanced, and I'd love to know more about class A and AB. Anyone out there care to help? thanks George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 George, You have very high class gear yourself.Few know true quality and own great audio gear.You have a heck of a great start,RF-7's,Sunfire S,NAIM,QUAD,Bryston...all great gear. Now my HT room has now only(LOL)4 subs,Signature,Mark II,Junior and Carver Knight Shadow.Plenty for a 10*14 room! Yes 10*14 Output is huge down to 20Hz,efortless.The ears strain well before the subs start to show stress. In my main HT room(yes main ) I have now three subs,Velodyne HGS18,Revel B15 and Aerial Acoustics SW12.And next year I plan to get two SVS Ultra subs. The output in this larger room is still huge,I can stand about 30-40% on the volume gain.After its SPL HAZARD zone. I at one time combined all the subs in the small room and cranked up the volume.Almost collapsed Of course this requires several 15AMP lines to even make it all work well.A good HT room should have 2-4 15AMP lines.And a large HT/Music room 6-10 lines(both 20 and 15 AMPS). Yes bass heaven is at home. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Thanks, theears, I really appreciate the kind words. I love this stuff. There's no kick like really getting lost in the music or a movie, that's bliss. Right now I'm listening to the Eagles on my RF-7s and the Naim amp, got the Sunfire going - even my dog is enjoying it - I'm a happy guy.(only had the dog two months, but I got him into home theater and deep subs right away. At first he would just sit there and move his head to follow sounds travelling across all the speakers, now he just enjoys it. He took to it well!) But honestly, though, you should charge admission at your house. I'd pay! Three Sunfires and a Carver in a 10x14 room?! What could be better? And soon to be five subs in the larger one. I love roller coasters, but that's like having Space Mountain in your house. Kids of all ages have to appreciate that, it's a dream! And the level of refinement and emotion you must get with your great amps! I have to plan to go listen to a Celeste, a Moon and a Krell. thanks George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Just realized the Moon amp is a Celeste, never mind. Now I just have to listen to a Celeste and a Krell! On the original Naim question, once I sell my Acurus A125x5 and A100 (got an ad on Audiogon now), I'm going to search for a couple more used Naim Nait IIs or maybe NAP 140s (these are 45 watts - considering how much I get out of my 30 watts, these should be a revelation! I've emailed a Naim dealer for his opinion on if the Nait 2 and NAP 140 can coexist gracefully in a home theater setup or whether I should go with four of the Nait 2s. Anyone interested in a good deal on some mint Acurus amps, let me know or check my Audiogon ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Well it is a roller coaster,of sound. Be warned the larger Krell amps are very expensive(at first when I saw the price I walked away).The Celeste MOON amps are more down to earth(still not too close at 3 grand and up). I am sure you get over 90% of a Celeste or Krell with your NAIM.The 10% would be the extra power and efortless sound even at insane volume levels.I will not start to claim NAIM is lesser then the two above,I did compare and the NAIM is one of the few worthy contenders.I have only praise for NAIM I dont let many see and listen to my system,its my shrine.Most dont put so much value in audio and yes it is a sickness.A good sickness TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 I think a number of people on this board have this sickness. It's one of the few sickness you can enjoy having! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 DrPyro, Most quality amplifiers are class A/B,they work in class A up to say 10 watts and from there the transition is made.Many quality amps work like this. Pure class A amplifiers are not prctical as they are huge and also cost huge $. Class A/B is a great compromise. Balanced is also called XLR,its used in pro audio and often by high quality components.This eleimitates noise and the conectors are very secure.Then again to take full advantage of balanced the gear should be fully balanced if possible.Many have XLR inns and outs but are in fact converted to unbalanced,the advantage is lost. The standard unbalanced is often called RCA.Almost all audio gear has RCA conections. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 DrPyro - To expand a bit on balanced vs "unbalanced" (actually, the opposite of balanced is called single ended): http://www.walrus.co.uk/tech/bal.htm For neat info on Class A vs Class B vs Class AB check out: http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/ampclasses.html or http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/class-a.asp or http://www.geocities.com/summitamps/classes.html or http://www.sound.au.com/class-a.htm Have fun! ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Thanks, Ray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 GeorgeC- Keep us informed on what the NIAM dealer states...I was looking at the NAP150. Looks like a great Amp Thanks for the info Ray! -DrPyro ------------------ Receiver: Denon AVR-3801 DVD: Denon DVD-1000 Front: RF-3's Rear: RS-3's Center: RC-3 SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Good links Ray TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.