PrestonTom Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Colleagues, I am interested in your collective thoughts and experience! I am considering going to a 2-way design and I am not sure that I am up to building a Jubilee. I currently have a pair of Klipschorns (with the soldered K55Vs, the K-77Ms and a refreshed network). My goals are: 1) 2-way 2) use an electronic crossover (fed digitally by a CD player and divide the spectrum prior to the DAC conversion) probably using a Behringer DCX (cost is an issue) 3) time align the drivers with the DCX crossover 4) Bi-amp, although It is still up in the air regarding a master volume control 5) Use steepish crossover filters on the DCX (using some of tricks that Shawn (SFOGG) recommends) 6) This will be used strictly for 2-channel audio, so the sweet spot can be small (i.e., I can use a "beamy" horn) At first blush, I am thinking of building a new top section (oiled birch veneer, to match the bass bins) and stuffing it with: Altec 511b and a 902 driver. My ears are old enough so that if it is not flat to 20 kHz, that's okay. I may also sparingly use a digital eq (prior to the DCX) to slightly elevate the highs. Also the filters will be somewhat steep and the levels will not be excessive so that I do not imagine that I will be running the 902s at too low of a crossover frequency and trashing them. My Question: Has anyone converted a Klipschorn to a 2-way (I know some of the La Scala folks have)? What are you recomendations regarding horns and drivers? What are your thoughts & warnings? Incidentally, the issues of time alignment and using a Behringer are probably fixed in stone, so we don't need to hash that one out. If there are show stoppers on this configuration, my back up plan would be to give up on my K-Horns and fabricate a Jubilee. I am running hot & cold on that possibility... Thanks, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm just starting that project using EV MR9040 horns, Altec 290 E drivers, Yamaha 2040 crossover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm just starting that project using EV MR9040 horns, Altec 290 E drivers, Yamaha 2040 crossover Duke, You are invaluable! Can you give me (the rest of us) a quick rundown and how you made your decisons about which components etc. Thanks, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Tom, I think the 902s will do fine at 400hz esp. if you cross them over fairly steeply. I think the 902/511 should work well for you on that. " I may also sparingly use a digital eq (prior to the DCX) to slightly elevate the highs." No need, you can do it in the DCX itself if you wanted to. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 the small throat on the Klipsch mid horn annoy's me no end at higher volumes... BUT ..... not every Horn, and Driver can play that 400 hz game .. I bought the 290's awhile ago, was lucky to score a pair that was 16 ohm Sooo... been looking for the right Horn the Altec 300's keep on going up, ...outta sight our new member, Horatio tipped me to the performance of the MR9040 I had been looking for the smaller EV 120 horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Duke, Do the 290s have enough top end for that? I've never listened to 290s but from what I've read they have less top end then 288s. When I ran the 288s two way I thought they were a little too dark, though I didn't try boosting them with EQ. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm gonna have to have CD compensation i'll just tweak a little more couldn't score any 288's..... actually, I think I smoked your bid on them 290's I can only hear 15k , anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 290E Altecs at 16 ohm are rare buggers indeed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Duke, 288s are funny, sometimes they are available cheap.. sometimes not. You can usually get them much cheaper if you buy ones that have blown diaphragms and you then know you end up with good diaphragms off the bat. I bought a few that way, only problem there is sometimes they have other damage. I have a couple that have broken off diaphragm mounting screws in the body for example. Haven't gotten around to trying to extract them yet. Make sure your EQ has the ability for a lot of boost or a shelving filter. From a little bit of testing of a 288 on a CD horn (MR94) with the CD compensation and trying to make the driver flat at 20kHz it would need almost 40dB of boost. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/749014.aspx Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 <I had been looking for the smaller EV 120 horn> That's a good sounding horn; if you get the chance, though, I'd go with the HR90 (little brother to the HR9040 you're considering). It's got better pattern control. BUT, unlike the SM120, which if I recall, is an exponential radial, the HR90 is a CD setup and MUST be equalized. My opinion is that these give the best shot at a credible two way. When Keele designed these, he noted a certain resemblence of these (HR9040, at that time) to the Klipsch patent horn which, at one time, was the upper end of the Khorn before it went three way. FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Been looking at that DCX unit, too. An email into Behringer got a response on setting this up for the CD equalization needed for an HR9040. Amazingly, they build analog eq's with CD compensation capability built in. But, they did not set up the DCX with a CD compensation library. You have to mix and match the core eq functions available on the unit. But, the DCX can do the time alignment without incident, which is more difficult to do with an analog eq that has delay (I have a Rane AC23, and the delays have to be moved around to get them where you want them, on this setup). Master volume: some pick up the digital conversion model (e.g., does up/down sampling of digital sources, etc. etc.) of the 2496 series (I can't recall the model, scx or some such). This takes SPDIF, does AES out (which the DCX likes as input, and avoids an A/D step), AND it has a master volume knob. For about $130. Jeez, once you do this, put their DEQ-2496 in between...yeah, you can go crazy... but, it's an all digital chain from the CD to the backside of the DCX, going into the amps. Also, there's an excellent French site on mods for the DCX, including extensive how-to on setting up for unbalanced use. Put www.dcx2496.fr INTO the yahoo search engine (don't enter it into the browser directly, unless you can read French). This way, you'll get Yahoo's ability to on the fly translate into English, and you can make headway. I have been chasing down a similar path, as you can see. I have already tried the HR9040 with a University Classic bottom, in a two way, and it's pretty nice. The HR9040 is quite big for the Khorn, but it's kid brother, the HR90, should integrate very nicely, if you make a slightly taller top hat for it. I'd go for the HR9040, if you can negotiate domestic peace on the visual on the results. Otherwise, try the HR90. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I run the 90* version of these .....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 290's ....DJK ....??? i know you are familiar with these ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Duke, Which horns are those in the above photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Jeez, Duke, those are monsters! How many elephants had to be killed for your system? On this proposed biamp situation: FWIW, I am going to try Sonic Impact Type-T amps for the top end on my system. Got a couple on order (what? didn't PWK say something about this country needing a good 5 watt amp? At $30 per, no less? Read the web reviews A-B'ing these guys against triodes? Too much of a tease to resist at $30 per). I am using BK Electronics monoblocks (U.K.) for the bottom (100W/side); never been happy with anything other than a solid MOSFET bottom end (I'm an old Hafler 500 guy at heart). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Duke, Which horns are those in the above photo? JBL 2360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 "290's ....DJK ....???i know you are familiar with these ..." Good mid driver. Cannot be made to go above 6.3Khz. 290 structure is different than the others, diaphragms do not interchange. 288G is the most prized driver for a two-way. They bring $850 and up for a good pair. A 291B has the identical structure as the 288G, buy a blown pair and put 288s back in them and away you go. If you like the plastic phase plug (they seem OK for the 1" models, but I prefer the metal on the 1.4" models), then any of the newer ceramic magnet models of 299 or 288 will do (less cost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Aaaahhh ... 60- 6000 .....hz that's all I care about, anyways ......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 gonna halfta put a Slot in the mix, I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Duke... Are those 2360 A's or B's and what is the dimension of your listening space? I've considered these for my 2482 drivers but wondered if they'd overwhelm a 15 foot speaker placement. Also, what did you paint those with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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