5.1 HT Speaker purchase advice needed: Which Klipsch or Jamo speakers to buy?

[Johnny Canuck]

Hi I am looking to buy a 5.1 speaker system and my best

friend (who owes me a few favors) was gracious enough to offer to buy me

whatever Klipsch speakers or Jamo speakers I want for 40% off of the retail /

MSRP price (manufactures suggested retail price). He works at a store that sells these speakers

and is offering to buy them for me at his insiders price.

I need some help on selecting speakers for my living room

from either Klipsch or Jamo preferably (or some other company that falls within

the budget and criteria I specify below).

*****Main problem:

I am looking for advice on which speakers to buy (whether

the ones I list below or some other model) for the budget I have established

(keep in mind I can get 40% off of MSRP for Jamo or Klipsch).

Before I list which speakers I was thinking of, I will list

some of my particulars regarding this purchase:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My living room size is 3000 cubic feet (ceiling is 8 feet

high).

The listening position (e.g. my ears on the couch) will be

10 feet away from the front speakers.

The room is 13 feet wide (and the rear speakers will just

behind the listening couch with the rear speakers pointed towards each other

across the room -> <- )

Function is more important than form (I don't care if they

are floor standing speakers or bookshelf speakers)

The receiver I will using with the 5.1 speakers will be a

Denon AVR-3806 since my receiver budget is $1200 US / $1350 Canadian.

[in the future I may buy some separates like a 250 watt per

channel Parasound Amp but for now my receiver budget only affords me the above

Denon. Besides, I wouldnt dream of

going above my current receiver budget until HDMI 1.3 and DTS/DD HD are

featured on receivers below $2000 US].

My budget for the 5 main speakers (2 fronts, 1 center, 2

surrounds) is $4000 Canadian / $3600 US.

My budget for the subwoofer is $2250 Canadian / $2000 US.

*****Listening preferences:

I RARELY listen to music on CDs. I occasionally listen to music on

satellite/digital cable but the primary use of my system will be for High

definition movies , Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 gaming and some high definition

television programs so the vast majority of my sources will NOT be 2 channel

stereo sources but rather 5.1 sources.

My sound preferences seem to be geared towards warmer more

natural sounding speakers. I dont care

for loud-thumping unnatural (and muddied) base, I prefer clear base and warm (not

bright) sound.

For the record, I live in Vancouver,

Canada (so I cant drive any

farther than Seattle

to get speakers).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok on to the systems I was thinking of:

[ *Note: I can't consider the Jamo D7 (THX certified)

or Klipsch THX speaker line]

*****Klipsch System:

http://www.klipsch.com/products/speakers.aspx

1) Front Speakers

RF83 Tower Speaker

OR

RB81 Bookshelf Speakers

OR

RB61 Bookshelf Speakers

2) Center Speaker

RC64 Center Channel

OR

RC62 Center Channel

3) Rear Surrounds (for 5.1 setup)

RS62 Surround

OR

RS52 Surround (each)

*****Jamo System:

www.jamo.com

http://www.jamo.com/Admin/Public/DWSDownload.aspx?File=Files%2fFiler%2fsoundcatalogue%2fsoundcatalogue%2fSoundCatalogue_2006_07_English_USA_low.pdf

1) Front Speakers

C 809 floor standing

OR

C 803 bookshelves

2) Center Speaker

C-80 Center

3) Rear Surrounds (for 5.1 setup)

C-80 Surround

Now I am not wedded to any particular choice of the above

speakers, the ones I listed above were merely the best ones that I could find

on the manufacturer's websites (e.g. made by Jamo or Klipsch) that fell within

my budget parameters.

*****Question 1:

Any suggestions as to which front / center / rear speakers I

should purchase?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*****Subwoofer choice:

For the subwoofer, I know subwoofers dont need to be

matched to the other 5 speakers, so right now my choice is between:

Klipsch RT-12D Subwoofer

OR

Jamo C 80 Sub

My budget for the subwoofer is $2250 Canadian / $2000 US.

I could be persuaded to buy a different brand (other than

Jamo or Klipsch) if someone has a suggestion HOWEVER I would prefer a subwoofer

that had:

-a Digital

user-interface (for adjusting equalizer modes and listening preferences)

-calibration

microphone (for optimizing placement of sub and equalizer levels)

*****Question 2:

Any suggestions as to which subwoofer I should use to

accompany my system?

*****Question 3:

Lastly, Is the Denon AVR-3806 receiver good enough for the

5.1 speakers I am considering above?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks!

JC

[oldbuckster]

Are the RF's you're only choice other than the JAMO's??????

[thepathlesstaken]

Well the whole no two channel listening throws me for a loop here. In HT your L, C, and R speakers are the most important.

First off go demo (in two channel) the Synergy series and the RB series and find out which is more pleasing to your ear.

Take the winner of the comparison from the above and compare it to the Jammo offerings.

My point of all this is buy speakers that are pleasing to your ear. Many people do not like the sound of Klipsch.

[Johnny Canuck]

Are the RF's you're only choice other than the JAMO's??????

*****Klipsch:

1) Front Speakers

RF83 Tower Speaker

OR

RB81 Bookshelf Speakers

OR

RB61 Bookshelf Speakers

*****Jamo System:

1) Front Speakers

C 809 floor standing

OR

C 803 bookshelves

[Johnny Canuck]

Well the whole no two channel listening throws me for a loop here. In HT your L, C, and R speakers are the most important.

First off go demo (in two channel) the Synergy series and the RB series and find out which is more pleasing to your ear.

Take the winner of the comparison from the above and compare it to the Jammo offerings.

My point of all this is buy speakers that are pleasing to your ear. Many people do not like the sound of Klipsch.

I can listen to the klipsch and will do that (I have my own special demo DVD that contains a bunch of varied DTS tracks to test for different types of sounds. The tracks that I have include some good DTS-Music presentations like the Eagles).

The problem I have is that I can't find the Jamo speakers I am also thinking about to test, no one in my area seems to have it.

I do seem to like Jamo's sound a bit better for musical performances because it is warmer and more natural sounding (while the Klipsch sound seems a bit more brighter I geuss because of the horn technology) but without accessing the Jamo 'C' series I fear that I can't make a conclusive decision...

[oldbuckster]

pre-owned Heritage.........................

[Johnny Canuck]

.

[Johnny Canuck]

Can anybody tell me if I want to "timber" match the speakers, what floor standing/bookshelfes do the RC-62 and RC-64 center channels match up with?

Thanks.

[jamesV]

The RC-64 matches with the RF-83 and RF-63.

The RC-62 matches with the RF-82 and RF-62.

All four speakers are floor standing with the 83's as the top of the line Reference speaker.

[jamesV]

I forgot to add the rear speakers.

The RS-62 matches with the RF-83 and RF-63.

The RS-52 matches with the RF-82 and RF-62, it also matches with the RB-81 bookshelf.

[Johnny Canuck]

I forgot to add the rear speakers.

The RS-62 matches with the RF-83 and RF-63.

The RS-52 matches with the RF-82 and RF-62, it also matches with the RB-81 bookshelf.

Thanks JamesV for the timber matching info.

Anyone know if I could run these 5 speakers fine:

RF83 Tower Speaker

RC64 Center Channel

RS62 Surround

With the Denon 3806 receiver:

http://ca.denon.com/ProductDetails/623.asp

or if I plan to buy this receiver should I downgrade to some other Klipsch speakers that better match the performance of this receiver?

Thanks.

[RM1111]

Good speakers will last you a life time. Spend the money in the speakers unless you change you mind easliy and choose to go a different direction. The denon should run the speakers fine and you can also add a amp later. I have never heard jamo speakers, so i can't compare the two brands. I recommend the rf 83, rc 64, rs 62 if you go with klipsch, but go listen to both klipsch setups and choose yourself. What kind of setup do you have now? How often do you buy new equipment?

[Johnny Canuck]

Good speakers will last you a life time. Spend the money in the speakers unless you change you mind easliy and choose to go a different direction. The denon should run the speakers fine and you can also add a amp later. I have never heard jamo speakers, so i can't compare the two brands. I recommend the rf 83, rc 64, rs 62 if you go with klipsch, but go listen to both klipsch setups and choose yourself. What kind of setup do you have now? How often do you buy new equipment?

I bought some Atlantic Technology System 450 (THX certified) speakers about 5 years back for about $13,000 Canadian.

(The manual is listed here: http://www.atlantictechnology.com/default.asp?IsDev=False&NodeId=82

I am running a Pioneer Elite THX certified Flaghship amp.

The thing is I bought these speakers (instead of a decent used car) while I was still in school and living at my parents house. Bad mistake because now I am finished school and am moving into a smaller place and these speakers, particarly the type of amp they require, are way above my means so I wanted to pair down to a more 'modest' system with

a) a A/V receiver around the $1500 US / $2000 cdn range I would be willing to upgrade every 4 years.

The best 5.1 speaker system I could buy for about $6000 US ($7000 Canadian) and would be willing to upgrade the speakers only every 10 years...

(my room and requirements are listed in the first post).

I tend to generally be an early adopter of technology $1000 or less (e.g. bought a Xbox 360 right away, bought HD-DVD drive, have high-def PVR, etc.)

I like the Klipsch speakers, and prefer the RF83/RC64/RS62 the most from what I have heard of the new reference line, but the Klipsch speakers still seem a bit 'bright' for my taste's, I'd prefer a warmer sound then the Klipsch. Worst case I would still be happy with these speakers, but before I buy anything I want to weigh out my options...

As well, while I like the new RT-12D subwoofer, should I be considering a different manufacturer like Velodyne or Sunfire?

Thanks

[homemadeheresy]

With your friends discount this should fall well within your budget, shouldn't it?

http://www.klipsch.com/products/lists/floorstanding-systems.aspx

[Johnny Canuck]

Yup the following system would be affordable (at my friends discount) for my budget:

# RF-83 Floorstanders (although one person suggested for my use I should use RB81's instead)

# RC-64 Center

# RS-62 Surrounds

# RT-12d Subwoofer (was open to using another Sub like Velodyne or Sunfire if it falls into my $2750 Canadian / $2500 US subwoofer budget...

It's just that I find the Klipsch reference speakers to be a little bright, and was looking for a warmer sounding speaker with a little more natural sound... that is why I was curious about the Jamo Concert series speakers or other people's suggestion at my budget...

[DrWho]

You could "compensate" by going with a warmer amplifier / preamp stage...

I think many here would argue the age old "garbage in - garbage out" if you felt the Reference lineup was bright...

It would be a sad thing to trade exceptional dynamics for a 'warmer' sound when you could have both with the right equipment selection...

[Johnny Canuck]

You could "compensate" by going with a warmer amplifier / preamp stage...

I think many here would argue the age old "garbage in - garbage out" if you felt the Reference lineup was bright...

It would be a sad thing to trade exceptional dynamics for a 'warmer' sound when you could have both with the right equipment selection...

You are right, after some demo's/testing I will still go with the Klipsch reference line.

I WILL get the # RC-64 Center but need some advice on the fronts and rears:

[for the subwoofer I am trying to decide between JL-Audio and the RT-12D but I'll take that inquiry into a different thread).

1)

I can't decide between the #RF-83 and #RF-63, any thought/suggestions on the differences between the two (Especially based on my room layout and requirements?)

2)

Trying to decide between the #RS-62 Surrounds and one of the bookshelfs based on how I am placing the speakers what do you guys think I should use?

[i can't place my side surround speakers (for 5.1 setup) further back

then where they are on the diagram. HOWEVER, at some point in the near

future I may be able to add 2 surround back speakers to the very back

at the room pointing forward (north) towards the TV set...]

S1 is the first surround sound location possibility (which is 2 feet behind the couch) and S2 is the second surround location possibility (which would have the center-point of the surround speaker pointing approximately above my knee while sitting down rather than my ear. Unfortunately it isn't possible to mount the speaker to point directly above my ears).

Any suggestions as to which of the 2 location (S1 or S2) is better for my surround speaker placements and if I should use the RS-62's or one of the bookshelfs for the rear placements?

Not sure if this is helpful at all, but this is a mockup of my living room:

===============

=.............................=

=.............................=

=...S.......T.V.......S...=

=.............S..............=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=S2->.................<-S2=

=..........C-C-C..........=

=S1->.................<-S1=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

=.............................=

===============

Legend:

Length = 26 feet 10 inches

Width = 13 feet 8 inches

Height = 8 feet

= 2933 Square Feet (total room volume)

C = Couch

TV = TV

S = Speakers

[DrWho]

If you are going to go with adequate subwoofage then I would vote for the 63's. The smaller drivers should present better midrange clarity and you can leave the oompf to the sub (not to imply the 63's are even lacking in that department). To be honest, I've only heard the 83's so I can't really comment on personal experience.

As far as surrounds, go with the S1 position and use the RS-62's. If by chance you move to 7.1 later on down the road, then you'll want to use bookshelves in the rear. In fact - due to the long distance you might be better off with just a single bookshelf in the back for 6.1 (less comb-filtering and you won't have coverage issues).

With your surrounds, you'll want the tweeter pointing at your head (or just above). So if you end up mounting the surrounds very high, then if at all possible you'll want to tilt them down towards the listening position.

As far as subwoofage, I vote for the RT-12d for two reasons: It was designed to timbre match your mains and it's got that fancy ARC that supposedly works extremely well. Every review so far talks about how it will seamlessly blend in with everything.

[Johnny Canuck]

If you are going to go with adequate subwoofage then I would vote for the 63's. The smaller drivers should present better midrange clarity and you can leave the oompf to the sub (not to imply the 63's are even lacking in that department). To be honest, I've only heard the 83's so I can't really comment on personal experience.

As far as surrounds, go with the S1 position and use the RS-62's. If by chance you move to 7.1 later on down the road, then you'll want to use bookshelves in the rear. In fact - due to the long distance you might be better off with just a single bookshelf in the back for 6.1 (less comb-filtering and you won't have coverage issues).

With your surrounds, you'll want the tweeter pointing at your head (or just above). So if you end up mounting the surrounds very high, then if at all possible you'll want to tilt them down towards the listening position.

As far as subwoofage, I vote for the RT-12d for two reasons: It was designed to timbre match your mains and it's got that fancy ARC that supposedly works extremely well. Every review so far talks about how it will seamlessly blend in with everything.

So am I to understand that bass and the lower octaves aside, the RF63 will sound better than the RF83? (So for people like me running mostly 5.1 sources and employing a RT12D or better subwoofer with a crossover of at least 60hz, perhaps 80hz).

Also, I know timbre matching is important with front speakers, but I didn't realize it was evident with woofers...

Thanks for all the info (including surround sound placement).

I am taking 2 seperate points to seperate threads (since I think the answers to these other threads and the talking points discussed will be of use to other people as well):

--------------------------------------------------

Klipsch RT-12d vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/825995/ShowThread.aspx#825995

Klipsch RF-83 vs. RF-63 differences and suggestions?

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=825997#825997

--------------------------------------------------

Guys, I geuss I will say this thread is closed now. I want to thank everyone who shared their information and advice...

JC

[DrWho]

I probably should have said the RT-12d is "voiced" to match with the rest of the reference series - which is slightly different than timbre matching. It's going to help achieve a more seamless transition.

As far as 63 vs. 83....you'll have to let your ears be the judge.