Parrot Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I think what Mark is doing is showing the equivalent of a SET amp in letter size. He's illustrating the very small window that low-watt SET offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 .... but it looks BIG on his end! [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Max the Movie Star, Healthy level and unnatural level and that kind of thing are recording dependent. Only an argumentative contrarian would deny that a natural level of a harpsichord is different than the natural level of a full symphony orchestra playing Bruckner's 9th. If you've got an ear, you'll know when the volume is dialed in right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hey, if the guy likes SET, he likes SET. At least there's room for opinion. What I still think is a joke is people using the phrase "tube watts.".......... Oh, My God! These "tube watts" are way more powerful than "solid state watts." But, Paul, you're right on the clipping issue. 8 watts is one hell of a governor system to use with good Klipsch Heritage speakers. It's kind of like buying a Porsche and never exceeding the speed limit.... I think at least most people would want to let her rip a little here and there. Power your equipment any way you like........................but, You can not own a PORSCHE and never exceed the speed limit............Horse Hockey......I can't tell you about SET's, but I can tell you about Porsche................doesn't this issue of what is the best way to power your speakers get old, or do you guys just like to keep the fires burning? Does it really matter? What is more interesting is the amount of choices you have to power the equipment, and the way some of you guys modify your equipment to satisfy your taste, pretty amazing really. There are some very talented people on this forum, and it just seems silly to me to keep up this nit picking. Just my opinion, for what it's worth..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 A low-watt amp will clip the signal of full-range source material played at a reasonably healthy level. An amp acting as a limiter in this way is not good audiophile practice in any way, shape, or form, and denying that objective fact is silly. One could play the flea amp at an unrealistically low volume instead, to avoid clipping, but this would render the lower level portions of the signal inaudible. ================================ Is this your argument then? Let's check it out. 1. A low-watt amp will clip the signal of full-range source material played at a reasonably healthy level. This is a totally relative statement based on your interpretation of "reasonably healthy level." Fortunately, that has no meaning outside of your mind. First off, "healthy" levels of sound, as described by physicians, would be very low indeed in order to preserve your hearing. Maybe that wasn't the health you were referring to? But to the main point of clipping. Yes, amplifiers can clip when over driven. That includes big ones as well as little ones. I see no problem at all setting the volume of a low powered amplifier such that it doesn't clip. And again, I beg the question, how do you suppose 100mW headphone amplifiers work? How can anyone possible hear them? How can you hear wsuch amazing detail with them? 2. One could play the flea amp at an unrealistically low volume instead, to avoid clipping, but this would render the lower level portions of the signal inaudible. Maybe for you, but perhaps not for everyone. The principles are not difficult. There is power input, efficiency of the speaker, acoustic power output and human interpretation of the acoustic output. Not many variables. There seem to be thousands upon thousands of people who somehow are able to set the volume of low powered amps to some enjoyable level - - - go figure, huh? The fact that YOU are unable to do it, is interesting but not definitive. But let's look at the obverse: Raising the power level into a driver INCREASES DISTORTION in that driver. Now, sadly, that's a physical fact. So, if I get your view correctly, you desire to keep raising the DISTORTION LEVELS until the music has a pleasing loudness to you. So, here's a thought----maybe some people actually object to this INCREASED DISTORTION and prefer the lower distortion of the lower power input? So, your summary seems to miss an important physical fact: Increasing the power into speaker drivers results in increasing the distortion present in their output. So while you think people using low power at lower volume is "just wrong" they might find the idea of using high power and high volume equally wrong for a different reason. You prehaps are sensitive to clipping, where others are perhaps sensitive to distortion. md Speaking of argumentative contrarians . . . Headphones are a marvelous device, aren't they? Perhaps you can explore their wonders with Erik, who has gone into the deep with them. In the meantime, back to loudspeakers: If you're trying to say that any volume level is equally realistic (high fidelity) and all just a matter of taste, I can't come to any conclusion except that you are not serious. There is no point in discussing something with someone who isn't serious. But you are probably going to win the award I mentioned earlier this morning, so congratulations on that in advance. Saying that a high watt amplifier can clip too, well, duh! The point is, a low-watt SET amp will clip during the music signal of what a normal person would listen to. Not true for a high watt amp, so let's not confuse the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Power your equipment any way you like........................but, You can not own a PORSCHE and never exceed the speed limit............Horse Hockey......I can't tell you about SET's, but I can tell you about Porsche................doesn't this issue of what is the best way to power your speakers get old, or do you guys just like to keep the fires burning? Does it really matter? What is more interesting is the amount of choices you have to power the equipment, and the way some of you guys modify your equipment to satisfy your taste, pretty amazing really. There are some very talented people on this forum, and it just seems silly to me to keep up this nit picking. Just my opinion, for what it's worth..................... You can't truly appreciate the subtle nuances of the road unless your engine is 1100 cc or less. Thus sayeth the SET school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted November 30, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2006 [|-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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