Help Selecting Synergy III Home Theater System

[TheChad]

Hey all,

I am in the middle of purchasing a Home Theater system to replace my old speakers, as they are all of different makes and don't sonicly match.

I have an HK AVR330 Receiver and full Monster cable interconnects, and Time corrected Speaker wires.

I actually just purchased the Klipsch Synergy III F-3's, C-3, and S-3's From best buy with their 3 year Financing Promotion.

But after ordering them in the store, I came home and was searching their websight and noticed they are offering a Klipsch 5.1 System, that comes with the F-2's, C-3, and S-3's which make all the speakers the same size 6-1/2" Instead of 8" fronts, and 6-1/2" Center/Surround.

I love the sound of the F-3's over the F-2's but it made me think, Should I have all my speakers with the same size woofer's to match sonicly? Is having the 8" front's going to throw off the sound?

Does it matter what size all the speakers are as long as they are of the same make/model for sonic imaging? IE: Could you do F-3's with C-2, and S-2's?

What is the Best setup? I am a Home Theater Hobbiest and Want the best (With in Reason). This system will later be in a Sound Proof Theater Room In the basement in a home we will be building in a year or two.

Thanks for the help,

-TheChad

[wuzzzer]

You made the best choice. The '3' series is the Synergy series top of the line. You want to match all the speakers as far as their last # when you're looking at the Synergy series to get the best timbre matching. Woofer size isn't really the most important thing when it comes to speaker matching.

Enjoy your setup!! By the way, if you don't yet have a sub, the Sub-12 has received many great reviews!

[TheChad]

You made the best choice. The '3' series is the Synergy series top of the line. You want to match all the speakers as far as their last # when you're looking at the Synergy series to get the best timbre matching. Woofer size isn't really the most important thing when it comes to speaker matching.

Enjoy your setup!! By the way, if you don't yet have a sub, the Sub-12 has received many great reviews!

Great! Thanks for the input.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

My In-laws have the Quintet III system, with the Sub-12, that Sub-12 is a MONSTER. The whole house shakes.

I love that sub, but thinking into the future, this setup will be in a theater room that will be a sound proofed room setup in my basement, which of course is concrete floors. The Sub-12 is a down firing sub, which is GREAT on wood floors, but on a concrete floor It wont have the same effect.

Alternatively, I was looking at possible getting the Klipsch RW-12d Forward firing sub, however the $700 price tag is making me hold off. Right now I have a 10" Polk Audio sub that is only about 100 watts and leaves allot to be desired, but I also know these F-3's pack some punch of their own.

P.S. Does anyone have some input on what are the proper settings in the amp for these speakers? Small/Medium/Large? I have been told Small is Satellite speakers, Medium is any full range speaker that doesn't have built in Sub, and Large is only for Full range speakers with built-in sub? Is that true? If that's the case, then the Front's would be set to Medium, and the Center/Surround would be set to small?

I want to optimize this system as much as possible. (Obviously, or I wouldn't have $2000 in Monster Cable's)

Thanks again for the help,

-TheChad

[kelA]

If I were you, I would take back all that Monster cable BS and just get "regular" cables. Then use all the "extra" money and put toward a new sub. Look around the forum and you will find there are many alternatives to Monster products. Just my .02 []

[tmjlod]

I think you should set them up in different ways and listen to which way you like it best. My SB-3's are in a book case and I plugged the port on the back and set them to large and set my SW-10 sub to a 80 hz crossover. This has great sound. If you do set the floor standing sides to large, set you reciever to LFE only on the sub to avoid boominess with the sides and sub.

If you do go with the down firing sub, buy some pre-finished wood flooring and make a square under your sub. You will get the sound you want. A friend of mine did this and it sounds great. Good luck

[TheChad]

If I were you, I would take back all that Monster cable BS and just get "regular" cables. Then use all the "extra" money and put toward a new sub. Look around the forum and you will find there are many alternatives to Monster products. Just my .02 []

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

All the Monster cables I have where purchased when I use to work at an electronics store, and were bought at 'cost'. There are other alternatives to Monster yes. However Monster can be aquired at lower costs when purchased online with out the 200% + markup found at Retail stores, and Monster Cable Has been the standard for YEARS, its only been the last few years that all these other cable companies have poped up.

Thanks for the input though.

-TheChad

[DrWho]

If I were you, I would take back all that Monster cable BS and just get "regular" cables. Then use all the "extra" money and put toward a new sub. Look around the forum and you will find there are many alternatives to Monster products. Just my .02 []

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

It would be more like putting $50k tires on a $70k car. Why not just go for the $120k car and get way more performance? (not to mention more bragging rights). The extra money put into the tires is a huge waste in comparison - despite any claims one might make about better performance with the cheaper car.

Ultimately, the important question here is do you really think you are improving the sound more by going with more expensive cables instead of say a better reciever or better speakers? Have you heard the difference (or lack thereof) for yourself? I'm just wondering what your source of information is - Monster brand cable is most certainly not the industry standard []

[kelA]

If I were you, I would take back all that Monster cable BS and just get "regular" cables. Then use all the "extra" money and put toward a new sub. Look around the forum and you will find there are many alternatives to Monster products. Just my .02 []

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

Well if you believe all the hype about Monster Products, I'm sure a Bose system would have been just as good. Both are the kings of the hype machine. I for one do not believe that an electron flows any differently, based on wire used. This topic has been debated MANY MANY times before, so this is the last time I will bring it up.

[xdetroitx]

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

Here is the real kicker. If you would have went to an audio visual center that sold Klipsch you could have purchased the reference line for the same price as all the synergy 3 ceries. If you look at my system profile, I bought everything on there for under 3000. My speakers out the door were 2200(including the rw-12d). Any member on here will tell you the difference between the synergy and reference is night and day. You may want to take them back and look into that. I joined this forum and asked about the synergy line and luckily I got some good information and advice before purchasing.

[TheChad]

If I were you, I would take back all that Monster cable BS and just get "regular" cables. Then use all the "extra" money and put toward a new sub. Look around the forum and you will find there are many alternatives to Monster products. Just my .02 []

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

It would be more like putting $50k tires on a $70k car. Why not just go for the $120k car and get way more performance? (not to mention more bragging rights). The extra money put into the tires is a huge waste in comparison - despite any claims one might make about better performance with the cheaper car.

Ultimately, the important question here is do you really think you are improving the sound more by going with more expensive cables instead of say a better reciever or better speakers? Have you heard the difference (or lack thereof) for yourself? I'm just wondering what your source of information is - Monster brand cable is most certainly not the industry standard []

Actually I HAVE heard a difference between Cheap cables and Quality Cables. Take you $120k car and try to run the spark plugs off a 1/16" plug wires, then try to run that same car off 1/4" plug wires. It's been proven 1000x times over. You will gain performance using the better wires.

If you want to buy an Expensive Amp, and Expensive speakers, and use Cheap crap cables, That's your right, but Show me one THX certified Theater that uses cheap crap cables, and I will withdraw my statements. ..and THX IS a Standard, One most every high end component manufacturer strives to achieve.

I personally have had people come to my house hear my system with cheap speakers, and a middle of the line receiver with all my Monster cable, and go out and buy a Good amp, and better speakers than mine, and come ask me why theirs doesn't sound as good as mine. One Answer... CABLES. What good is all the power in the world, If you can't deliver it.

I am not saying Monster is the only "Quality" cable. But they are good cables. I just happen to have all Monster because I was able to buy it all at cost.

-TheChad

[TheChad]

What good is a $3000 System, with "Regular" cables. That's like Buying a Corvette then trying to use cheap Gas.

Here is the real kicker. If you would have went to an audio visual center that sold Klipsch you could have purchased the reference line for the same price as all the synergy 3 ceries. If you look at my system profile, I bought everything on there for under 3000. My speakers out the door were 2200(including the rw-12d). Any member on here will tell you the difference between the synergy and reference is night and day. You may want to take them back and look into that. I joined this forum and asked about the synergy line and luckily I got some good information and advice before purchasing.

I actually went to the Magnolia Home Theater store today, which sells Klipsch Ref Speakers. I asked the sales man what the difference was between the same speakers in the Ref series, and the Synergy F-3, C-3, S-3. He printed all the specs of the 2 speakers and went threw a book they had there, and said All the specs were the exact same, and the only difference he could find was that the Ref speakers had a Titainum Tweeter, vs and Aluminum Tweeter on the Synergy speakers.

They were a little more than the Synergy series spakers, But not much, Though I did get the Synergy's on sale which made them quite a bit cheaper..

I have listened to the F-3's MANY times over the last year, and each and every time I have been impressed by their sound.

-TheChad

[videomagician]

I too have been wondering about the difference between the Sub-12 and the RW-12D. Anyone listened side by side?

[TheChad]

I too have been wondering about the difference between the Sub-12 and the RW-12D. Anyone listened side by side?

I did Yesterday. Not side-by-side, but I went to the Best Buy / Magnolia Home Theater Store, and listend to them both.

The Sub-12 Is an awesome sub, As long as you are on wood floors. To be quite honest I was VERY unimpressed with the RW-12D. It didn't sound good at all. Very boomy, Not Crisp.

I think I am going to end up with an Energy Subwoofer. Energy Is now owned by Klipsch Company, But Energy Forward fireing subs are some of the Crispest subs I have heard.

-TheChad

[kelA]

I too have been wondering about the difference between the Sub-12 and the RW-12D. Anyone listened side by side?

I have heard many good things about the SUB-12, but never listened to it in a REAL setting (not counting Best Buy, because everything sounds bad w/ their demo's IMO). I have the RW-12d, and am very pleased with it. I have had this sub for about a week now, and I have not noticed any boominess since I got everything dialed in. I am happy with it for my room size, and listening preferences. This replaced my RW12 which was replaced under warranty. I originally bought the RW12 before the SUB-12 was released, which is the reason why I chose it over the Sub-12.

[DrWho]

Actually I HAVE heard a difference between Cheap cables and Quality Cables. Take you $120k car and try to run the spark plugs off a 1/16" plug wires, then try to run that same car off 1/4" plug wires. It's been proven 1000x times over. You will gain performance using the better wires.

Did you by chance hear the difference during a double blind ABX listening test? If so, I think there is a million dollar reward out there waiting for you.

And if you actually knew anything about transmission line theory you wouldn't be making that analogy. Sorry to be blunt, but the thousands of volts and DC currents used with spark plugs have absolutely nothing in common with the small voltage AC currents used with loudspeakers. The wire you choose is dependant on your source, load, and the signal you're trying to transmit. The only fancy high-end cable one should even consider is one that is optimizing for your specific application (and even then you're talking differences on the order of 0.01dB).

Btw, how do you KNOW that the more expensive wire is helping the electronics travel better? Ever tried measuring it before? What's even more interesting is the high-dollar cables that are using the exact same wire as cheaper off-market brands (no, it's not all of them). But throw on a fancy label and charge crap loads more - and everyone always claims the more expensive wire sounds better (even though it's identical). Gotta love psychoacoustics.

If you want to buy an Expensive Amp, and Expensive speakers, and use Cheap crap cables, That's your right, but Show me one THX certified Theater that uses cheap crap cables, and I will withdraw my statements. ..and THX IS a Standard, One most every high end component manufacturer strives to achieve.

Go visit any of your local high-end professional cinemas - heck, go visit your local IMAX theatre. Have you ever seen the kind of cables being used in the studios making your recordings? Heck, I've fricken seen guys unbending wire coat hangers when in a pinch... When the masters of recording aren't using fancy cable, then why bother with it in the home? If anything, a better cable should make things sound worse as you reveal the flaws in the original wiring being used in the studio. []

I personally have had people come to my house hear my system with cheap speakers, and a middle of the line receiver with all my Monster cable, and go out and buy a Good amp, and better speakers than mine, and come ask me why theirs doesn't sound as good as mine. One Answer... CABLES. What good is all the power in the world, If you can't deliver it.

I would propose that the difference is more likely that your room has better acoustics. I can think of plenty of other variables that will affect the sound far more than any differences in wire.

But alas, I don't want to get in a pissing match about the audibility of different wires (let alone trying to argue if it's an improvement). My original question which you conveniently didn't answer was "Does the more expensive wire really make your F3's sound better than better speakers with cheaper wire?" And have you personally done an AB comparison?

Anyways, congrats on your purchase and welcome to the forum. The F3's are quite a lot of bang for the buck.

[kelA]

[:#],[]

[TheChad]

Actually I HAVE heard a difference between Cheap cables and Quality Cables. Take you $120k car and try to run the spark plugs off a 1/16" plug wires, then try to run that same car off 1/4" plug wires. It's been proven 1000x times over. You will gain performance using the better wires.

Did you by chance hear the difference during a double blind ABX listening test? If so, I think there is a million dollar reward out there waiting for you.

And if you actually knew anything about transmission line theory you wouldn't be making that analogy. Sorry to be blunt, but the thousands of volts and DC currents used with spark plugs have absolutely nothing in common with the small voltage AC currents used with loudspeakers. The wire you choose is dependant on your source, load, and the signal you're trying to transmit. The only fancy high-end cable one should even consider is one that is optimizing for your specific application (and even then you're talking differences on the order of 0.01dB).

Btw, how do you KNOW that the more expensive wire is helping the electronics travel better? Ever tried measuring it before? What's even more interesting is the high-dollar cables that are using the exact same wire as cheaper off-market brands (no, it's not all of them). But throw on a fancy label and charge crap loads more - and everyone always claims the more expensive wire sounds better (even though it's identical). Gotta love psychoacoustics.

If you want to buy an Expensive Amp, and Expensive speakers, and use Cheap crap cables, That's your right, but Show me one THX certified Theater that uses cheap crap cables, and I will withdraw my statements. ..and THX IS a Standard, One most every high end component manufacturer strives to achieve.

Go visit any of your local high-end professional cinemas - heck, go visit your local IMAX theatre. Have you ever seen the kind of cables being used in the studios making your recordings? Heck, I've fricken seen guys unbending wire coat hangers when in a pinch... When the masters of recording aren't using fancy cable, then why bother with it in the home? If anything, a better cable should make things sound worse as you reveal the flaws in the original wiring being used in the studio. []

I personally have had people come to my house hear my system with cheap speakers, and a middle of the line receiver with all my Monster cable, and go out and buy a Good amp, and better speakers than mine, and come ask me why theirs doesn't sound as good as mine. One Answer... CABLES. What good is all the power in the world, If you can't deliver it.

I would propose that the difference is more likely that your room has better acoustics. I can think of plenty of other variables that will affect the sound far more than any differences in wire.

But alas, I don't want to get in a pissing match about the audibility of different wires (let alone trying to argue if it's an improvement). My original question which you conveniently didn't answer was "Does the more expensive wire really make your F3's sound better than better speakers with cheaper wire?" And have you personally done an AB comparison?

Anyways, congrats on your purchase and welcome to the forum. The F3's are quite a lot of bang for the buck.

I have no intention of arguing either. But i love a good discussion... and would like nothing more than to have us both in the same room playing with everything trying to prove our points. Just for fun.

But in all reality. It doesn't matter, because I already had all the cables. I didn't spend $70 a cable, or even $40 a cable. I got them all at cost which was very cheap. Before I was running Premium Gas, with a premium car, using 2 bald tires, 2 OK tires, and a Z-rated Spare tire. Now I am running Premium gas, with a premium car, with all Z-rated tires. That's all that really matters. The Premium gas is the cables. There has been debates for years as to weather Premium gas is any better for your car than Regular. Same here. Personally I like my premium gas. But You like your Regular, In the end, We both get to where we are going.

Just for my last $0.02. The wire inside the cable may be the same, but what you are getting with the better wires, is FAR better insulation, far better connections on the ends, and far better connection between the wire and the connectors. Your cheap wires are 1/16" around, have no real insulation, and are molded or crimped to the connectors which are cheap plated connectors. Your premium cables reguardless of the wires inside, have much better insulation, sometimes several layers of insulation, the wires are soldered to the connectors, and the connectors are old gold plated. This is worth some extra money to me. You spend $40 on a premium cable that is guarenteed for life, or $6 on a cheap cable that you will replace several times Especially if you connect/disconnect the cables often.

I set up my F'3, C-3, and S-3's Today, and watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding Which has good acustics (I got my speakers, and let the wife choose the movie). So far I am very impressed. Crystal Clear. Very well blended between speakers, (This is what I'm not use to with my old setup due to having all different speakers)

I have not yet tuned the system. But It already sounds great.

Thanks for the input.

-TheChad

[xdetroitx]

The reference line also has the cerametallic woofer. I started a post about nine months ago asking the difference between the synergy line and the reference line. You should look it up.

[videomagician]

I picked up a Sub-12 at BB this week and so far am very pleased with it. They didn't have any reference stuff in this particular store that I saw.

David

[xdetroitx]

What always amazes me is someone posts a question and gets an answer but argues when they get the answer. If you already know so much why come on here asking questions? You already seem to have the answer. And, one more thing....the average(99%) best buy/magnolia salesperson does not know beans about home audio. They read a magazine and profess to be experts. I can talk to 10 sales people (which I did these past two weeks buying my tv) and they all say something different but all work in the same department for the same company.