ClaudeJ1 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 I'm working on a 4-Way LaScala using just the Bass Bins, 511B/902-8b Altec (which will be replaced by a German Tractrix--400hz spherical), JBL 2404's and Bass Reflex bins as 25-100hz subs with an electronic crossover for the whole thing. I will be using 4th order Linkwitz Riley filtering with a sub 25 Hz Highpass filter. In the mean time, the SP-1's from Peavey have a Large (FH-1) La Scala-like bottom with a big molded plastic horn on top which sounds DAMN good as a 2-way in my 30x50 foot photo studio. I'm driving it with a cheap $50 DVD player from Wal-Mart and a Sonic Impact $30 chip amlifier. It plays amazingly loud, so it must be over 105 db efficiency.....amazing to listend to while I assemble the rest of the components over the next few months. Has anyone done anything like this with a passive OR active crossover? I plan on using a couple of Hafler DH-220's on the LaScala Bins and the Subwoofer cabs. The treble highpass and midrange lowpass crossovers will be passive (smallest/cheapest components of highest quality) with the active portion driving the bottom end of the mid though the little Sonic Impact amp, since the bass demands most of the power anyhow. I may upgrade to a more sophisticated digital filter/eq. control later on since those units can be had relatively inexpensively. With the advent of cheap and good quality power amps, I don't know why someone would spend over $1,000 on passive crossovers with their limited controls over the sound. I'm open to other opinions backed by good theory, facts and experience here. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Oh yeah, that Peavey is a real good speaker. FH-1 has good build quality with the big brace and corner reflectors. FH-1s work well with K-33s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Oh yeah, that Peavey is a real good speaker. FH-1 has good build quality with the big brace and corner reflectors. FH-1s work well with K-33s. Mine has the original Black Widow 4 ohm driver. I guess it's really a beefy driver. What would a K-33 do in it's place? Smoother, lower frequency? I got an FH1 on Ebay I will pick up in 5 weeks, with no driver in it. Should I get a K33 instead of a Peavy driver for it??? My application is not loud PA for a band, but more Hi Fi. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Claude---Mine had K-33s when I got them so I can't compare. But they measured very nice between 50 and 500hz when pushed back in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I have a pair of FH-1s with OEM Peavey woofers. I built acustom crossover to mate a 511B/902-8B to it and the results are quitegood. I don't have any hard data, yet, but listening is great andthe one Live performance I used them at sounded great. Ihelped my brother find a setup just like yours, with a 22XT HFdriver. He uses them as a PA for his kids' band. I designedhim a crossover around 650 Hz. The 22XT sounds muffled. The1504-4 produces a lot of harmonic distortion. A lot more than aK-33 in a La Scala and it's very obvious listening to them. Forhome use, I'd run K-33s. For loud PA use, I'd try K-43s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I dunno how to word this well, but there's been a lot of mention of Peavey lately....did/do they actually make quality products? Everything Peavey I've run into has been utter crap...[^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 I dunno how to word this well, but there's been a lot of mention of Peavey lately....did/do they actually make quality products? Everything Peavey I've run into has been utter crap...[^o)] I think these FH-1 (La Scala-like bass bin) and SP-1 (FH-1 + 500Hz CD horn on top with titanium 1" driver that goes to 18Khz) were made 20 years ago. Since the PA industry has gone to modular arrays for big concerts and smaller, cheaper, 2-way, self-powered, molded spkeakers on stands (12 or 15" bass reflex woofers with horns molded into the plastic cabinets) are now the norm for DJ's, there's no market for the older stuff anymore. Everyone seems to want to reduce WEIGHT and size (same story as wives wanting "those cute little Bose speakers) in all fields of sound reproduction. These big ol' Peavy's have gone the way of the old Muscle Cars of the 60's I guess. But my first impression is (don't know for sure) that these are quality units, that probably sold for a lot less than others at the time. FH-1's can be had for about $100-125/cabinet plus shipping (which can be almost as much as the purchase price), including the 4 ohm, heavy duty Black Widow 15" woofer. So it's a lotta "woof" for the buck. I got my SP-1's on Ebay for $350 a pair. That's like a black, rugged, 2-way, LaScala imitation, if you will. I just hooked them up to an old Marantz (free) surround sound receiver in Stereo Mode. Admittedly the low bass is weak compared to the top section. However just pushing the "loudness" bass compensation button on the receiver turn the thing into a kickass mode for "disco" sound. I used an old "Swing out Sister" CD and Chick Corea's Electric Band as test recordings. I have not peeked inside yet, but I presume the passive crossover has Constant Directivity Horn compensation built in, because I was amazed at how broadly dispersed the highs were on this SP-1. The crossover reads "Precision Transducer." I will be comparing this to real LaScala Bass Bins with K33's soon, as I just won Altec 500Hz. Crossovers for my mint 511b's and 902 drivers. We shall see. I'm hoping to get an active network since I have several new Sonic Impact Amps for the highs and used MosFET Hafler DH-220's for the lows laying around and not worth selling on Ebay. Lest you think of me as a traitor, I own so many Klipsch speakers (computers too), it's almost not sane relative to normal people in society (like many here, methinks). But, as much as anyone here, I wanna make the nicest noise possible when I listen to reproduced music, eh? We just all need bigger rooms!! Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 I have a pair of FH-1s with OEM Peavey woofers. I built a custom crossover to mate a 511B/902-8B to it and the results are quite good. I don't have any hard data, yet, but listening is great and the one Live performance I used them at sounded great. I helped my brother find a setup just like yours, with a 22XT HF driver. He uses them as a PA for his kids' band. I designed him a crossover around 650 Hz. The 22XT sounds muffled. The 1504-4 produces a lot of harmonic distortion. A lot more than a K-33 in a La Scala and it's very obvious listening to them. For home use, I'd run K-33s. For loud PA use, I'd try K-43s. I'll be using my 511/902's with Altec Xover and LaScala bass bins with K33's. You say they sound great on one hand, then you say they produce a lot of harmonic distortion. Did you try a K33 or 43 in the FH-1 cab and A/B the difference or did you measure? Unconfuse me please. What would be the advantage of K43's for loud PA use? Those are 8 ohm drivers, so I'm not sure they would perform the same as the 4 ohm K33's or the Black Widow 4 ohms, which, I presume we designed FOR the FH1 cab. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Claude---Here's a rig I used a few years ago. FH-1 bottoms with an extra MDF layer and veneer using K-33 woofers. Altec 902s on 511B horns. Bi-amped at 500hz with a DOD crossover, Yamaha SS on woofs and Fisher SA-100 tune amp on treble. Sounded pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I have a pair of FH-1s with OEM Peavey woofers. I built a custom crossover to mate a 511B/902-8B to it and the results are quite good. I don't have any hard data, yet, but listening is great and the one Live performance I used them at sounded great. I helped my brother find a setup just like yours, with a 22XT HF driver. He uses them as a PA for his kids' band. I designed him a crossover around 650 Hz. The 22XT sounds muffled. The 1504-4 produces a lot of harmonic distortion. A lot more than a K-33 in a La Scala and it's very obvious listening to them. For home use, I'd run K-33s. For loud PA use, I'd try K-43s. I'll be using my 511/902's with Altec Xover and LaScala bass bins with K33's. You say they sound great on one hand, then you say they produce a lot of harmonic distortion. Did you try a K33 or 43 in the FH-1 cab and A/B the difference or did you measure? Unconfuse me please. What would be the advantage of K43's for loud PA use? Those are 8 ohm drivers, so I'm not sure they would perform the same as the 4 ohm K33's or the Black Widow 4 ohms, which, I presume we designed FOR the FH1 cab. Claude Your information is different from mine. The K-43 is a 4 ohm driver rated at 250 watts vs. 100 for the K-33. Its Fs is a little higher than a K-33, but matters not in a short bass horn like an FH-1 or La Scala. They were the factory woofer installed in Klipsch LSIs, the Pro La Scala. Freddyi measured the distortion of a K-33 and a 1504-4 in an FH-1, but you don't need to measure it. The 1504-4 is DIRTY. The 902-8B/511B is not distorted. The 1504-4 will handle even more power and is essentially bullet-proof, plus is field-repairable. Knowing what I know now, if I needed a woofer to handle more than 250 watts, I'd cough up the $$$ for a JBL 2226H. It will handle 600 watts, but has 3 db of power compression at 600 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Since this was taken, I've built enclosures for the HF horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Peavey FH-1 Data.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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