jjhaz@ont.com Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Is there a trade off in sound when using a small footprint Sub like the Sunfire or Velodyne Subs, versus a large 15 inch woofer configuration? I have a KWS12 but I dont use it. I'm using Cornwalls now and hope to have Klipschorns soon. Jeff ------------------ Cornwalls Main fronts KLF-C7 Center IW-150 Rears KSW-12 200watt Sub Anthem AVM20 Preamp 5 Adcom 555s all mono BLK Toshiba 9200 DVD Sat. / Mit. VCR ----------------------- Project room Genelec Nearfield Monitors with Genalac Sub Alisis 32 channel board Joe Meek VC1Q Studio channel Art Power Plant Roland R8 Wave/24 24bit recording Aphex Comperesors And so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btrigg Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 From a technical standpoint, yes size does matter. The larger the enclosure/driver, the easier it is for a sub to play loud at the lower frequency. But unless you are going for the ultimate subs (like revel, highend velodyne, and svs, and the insane krell), I think the sunfire signature is more than enough, it has power all the way down to the limits of your hearing, and has more than enough volume. But looking at numbers, the hgs-18 plays down to about 12.5 hz and says relatively flat while doing so. This is unneeded IMO, but it does shake the room, more than the smaller subs. I guess a logical reason to by a hugh sub is if you had to fill a huge room with bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 The main tradeoff is the price,you will pay more for a micro sub with similar output to a larger sub. Take for example a Sunfire Signature,this sub can equal and even best the Paradigm Servo-15 above 20Hz but it costs more then the Servo-15 and you have to use great care when positioning this sub to get the most out of it.The Sunfire Signature has no real output above 80Hz so it has to be cut very low,mathes great with large speakers.And two are plenty for even large speakers in large rooms.I did compare the two side by side,the Sunfire Signature had more punch,like it or not.And the Paradigm Servo-15 is no punching bag. Same story with the Velodyne HGS and SPL series,great output from a small box and BIG pricetag. Well if you compare them to a Velodyne HGS15 then this 15 incher is a SUPER MICRO SUB,the 15 incher will always output more then a 10 or 12 down low. The more air you move the more output you get. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 The Sunfire Signature mops the floor with the Klipsch LF10 and 12.As well as the whole KSW series and probably(yet to test these ) bests the RSW10 and 12 down low. Btrigg, The Sunfire Signature beats the sub bass out of its main competitors the SPL1200 and HGS12.Again I did side by side comparisons in my room.In this size there is NO competition,all pretenders are knocked out flat.Only the ones with a serious hearing loss(-24dB from 80Hz down,12dB per octave slope down) may claim the Sunfire Signature is bass deprived. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 OK Earwax then where are your published Specs for the sunflower??? Don't see any oN TN list. And the reason Sunflowers cost more is because they made by Carver so you pay about twice as much for the name and image ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjhaz@ont.com Posted December 5, 2001 Author Share Posted December 5, 2001 Ear, Any opinons on the M&K MX-105 ------------------ Cornwalls Main fronts KLF-C7 Center IW-150 Rears KSW-12 200watt Sub Anthem AVM20 Preamp 5 Adcom 555s all mono BLK Toshiba 9200 DVD Sat. / Mit. VCR ----------------------- Project room Genelec Nearfield Monitors with Genalac Sub Alisis 32 channel board Joe Meek VC1Q Studio channel Art Power Plant Roland R8 Wave/24 24bit recording Aphex Comperesors And so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 ForrestGump, "OK Earwax then where are your published Specs for the sunflower??? Don't see any oN TN list. And the reason Sunflowers cost more is because they made by Carver so you pay about twice as much for the name and image" Another demonstration on your part of total ignorance and childish attempts at insults.Many have reviewed and tested the Sunfire subs and products,and all know Sunfire subs are among the elite in the microsub segment.Bob Carver is a master amplifier designer and most have failed in their attempts to copy his products(miserable failures).TN list is not complete and does not even have Revel,Sunfire Signature(will whoop a sub bass hole in most on this list),and even the SVS Ultra is not there ...yet.Your weak TN list argument means bull,when TN will test these subs he will place them where they belong at or near the top. Now you show complete lack of knowledge..."And the reason Sunflowers cost more is because they made by Carver so you pay about twice as much for the name and image" Nothing could be more off line and wrong. Carver is and was ALWAYS great value for the money,their amps,thier AV control centers and now their subs.The Sunfire sub is copied by so many who try to best it and FAIL time and again.HA HA So your arguments are pointless.Bob Carver is a maverick and WHO ARE YOU? A ZERO who spits on greater then yourself.Invent someting and market it,we will see who will want to immitate YOU. Your sustained attacks are total BS,you act like a Taliban terrorist. jjhaz, Excuse me I had to knock some things into Gump's thick hollow cranium. The M&K MX-105 is a good basic subwoofer,its fast,it has slam and matches very well with even small monitors.This units does not have a ny serious output below 25-30Hz(depending on room and placement).Still a great sub for music and movies if you dont demand to much output(plenty for most). And you have M&K quality built and the M&K's a solid workhorses,year after year of trouble free operation. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 earmite, I thought you would ACTUALLY show published specs or reviews under controled conditions. Instead more hot air like an overheating Sunflower sub again. You dont like to be challenged for proof because you dont have any. I wont be holding my breath for Sunfire on the TN list. Like TV says Sunflower has to contribute to that process and they never will. They just rely on the hot air from like your kind. Then they can charge more. It sad. ------------------ go forth & hump the world This message has been edited by forresthump on 12-05-2001 at 11:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 This is a typicle or only review of a Sunfire Siggy Sub http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/sunfiresignsub/ Wow look at all those measured specs under controled conditions. HAHAHAHA id like to see tests head to head with some less expensive subs. like the svs 25-39pc for more than half the price. and beware the reviews with links between them and the product's site. Mhhaha ------------------ go forth & hump the world This message has been edited by forresthump on 12-06-2001 at 12:01 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 ForrestGump, What is your nickname again? The Sunfire makes the coolest running amplifiers you can find at ANY price.SO your overheating comment bombs your whole Taliban talk. Here is a better link... http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_3/sunfiresubwoofersignature.html As always you will complain TN did not review it yet and how TN is your idol. Good for you Its not hard to take a large driver place it in a large(volume)box or oil barrel and obtain BIG SPL.And sell it cheap Nothing revolutionary there.Sure an elephant farts louder then you ForrestGump dont you agree? ForrstGump your boring rants and raves are worn out,be more creative. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Rightly or wrongly, I credit Bob Carver with creating the whole idea of large class D amps powering long excursion woofers in small little boxes, I certainly hadn't seen such things pushed as Bob did with the Sunfire ads. The problems with the Klipsch LF10, which I love at $450, show that doing what he does is not easy, even for such long lived marketers as Klispch. But then, if someone is a Klipsch lover, since when is size an issue? My wife says size does matter - little miss sensitive ears hates my big old horns, but admits they sound better than any other stereo she has heard, she even said they sound better than the movie theater (but she wasn't taking about the bass). ------------------ Cornwalls & Klipsch subs; leather couch & feet up; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Colin, No wrong in giving credit where credit is due Colin.You know its not easy to make a working micro sub with good output.Many did learn this,including Klipsch,Mirage,Energy,Paradigm and many others.Even Velodyne was in mud with their first HGS series(many amp problms). TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Klipschorn mains, LaScalas for front & rear centers, two Jensen Imperials & two LaScalas for the rear. LaScalas for the front effect channels. I have been using a Sunfire Sig. for two years now. I keep it set at about 45Hz & 0 db on it's volume control. I like it,and think that it blends well with the Klipschorns & Imperials. The Imperials are back loaded horn cabinets that have a little more in the bottom end then the K-horn. Even with this system you have to have light fingers on the Sunfires volume control. It can get way to loud. I live on the spase cost, & when the shuttle takes off it rattles the garage door & all the windows in the house. The sunfire can do the same thing with those special effects in the movies. It is life like and realistic sounding. There is no booming sound, It's so natural sounding you really don't notice what it's doing in the room.But go in the garage or a back room in the house while watching a movie ,and everything is vibrating to it's low rumble sounds. I have to turn down it's volume even more on some bass heavy CD's. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Qman lascala for front effects? You & earmite should get together and become THE OVERKILL BROTHERS. LOL ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 I think I would like to reverse the original question. Is there a trade of getting a larger rather than a smaller sub. I just bought mine (REL Strata 3) because it is simply the fastest sub I have ever come across (I owned the KSW 10 for a similar reason but there is no comparison between the 2 in terms of quality). Ultimate output levels interest me less than speed. I run this sub at just below 1/3rd volume as it is and find it a perfect accompaniment to most of my recordings (OK - I pump it up a bit for Madonna, MJ and the like but for the rest it is fine). I have found that larger subs, whilst creating amazing impact for movies and the like, tend to lag too far behind smaller speaker woofers to be usable for music. Of course many of the brands mentioned here are not available in Greece and importing is a tax-loaded nightmare. ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Hey some claim larger subs are as fast as smaller ones. LOL They never heard electrostarics or fast Dynaudio speakers. LOL TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Jeff - I have Cornwalls and a SVS 20-39CS and Cornwalls. I live in Plano so let me know if you want a demo. Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Earmite, larger subs sound slower to you because you too slow to realize the larger subs basicaly go lower. lower frequencie are slower of course. this fast slow is a bunch of "Audiophile" speak they cant support with measurements. just their opinion. in the case of earmite hot air. and dont call me taliban you french marxist blochead. LOL ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 ForrestDump, I am not french,or marxist you Taliban lover.I guess truth hurts does it not.Now remove your Osama portrait from your living room,it makes me sick. I better be marxist then a Taliban supporter.Marx had some good ideas and some less great.Talibans are criminals and suffer from tunnel vision...like ForrestGump. Now ForrestDump what gear do YOU own?You talk so much,it sounds distorted and you repeat(err distort) like a parrot what TV and some other may have said. If you dont own a product dont post things others said,a parrot can do just the same. No go build an altar to TN,your GOD TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjhaz@ont.com Posted December 8, 2001 Author Share Posted December 8, 2001 EQ, Thanks for the invite. I might drop you a line. Does anyone know the difference between the Velodyne HGS and the SPL series? And this time everyone be nice to each other. Agree to disagree, but believe in your opinion. Thanks, Jeff ------------------ Cornwalls Main fronts ALK Networks Heresy Center KLF-C7 Center IW-150 Rears KSW-12 200watt Sub (na) Anthem AVM20 Preamp 5 Adcom 555s Modified By Musical designs all mono BLock Toshiba 9200 DVD Echostar Dolby Satilite. JVC-7800 SVHS VCR ----------------------- Project room Genelec Nearfield Monitors with Genalac Sub Alisis 32 channel board Joe Meek VC1Q Studio channel Art Power Plant Roland R8 Wave/24 24bit and Delta 66 digital recording Aphex Comperesors And so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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