Blu-ray/playstation 3

[mas]

I would suggest that the entire market niche is near 'saturation'.

Oh sure, there will be churn and a proportion of folks who will enter the market, just as there will be those who effectively leave it - meaning that they are either satisfied with whatever product they already have, or they are upgrading a previous generation platform, or that they are just not going to go out and buy a new product. This is a natural development, just as many were shocked to see the leveling of the cell phone market several years ago - where the preponderance of new sales are in provider churn and in targeted phone feature churn - not substantial net market growth.

The market is not some insatiable bottomless pit as so many fancy it is. It is not going to take over and every home become a gaming hub! And at the new higher prices, even fewer are tempted, despite the potential to see Oprah's nose hair in even greater detail. While hi-res graphics are nice, if you are not directly comparing a set in an A-B environment, regular DVD quality at 480i is fine for most people - as much as those who cannot function without 1080p might object.

The overall cooling of the initial hype and the realization that the games will not convert the world, but only a small niche of households seems to be born out by reports such as the one below. One platform isn't going to OWN the market as so many fanboys hope. And it is rather easy to tell that price seems to be the determining market criterion rather than technobabble hype. And that should surprise NO ONE! The big message seems to be that the market is not expanding at some exponential rate. In fact it seems to be leveling off. And everyone is readjusting their anticipated sales figures downward to more realistic levels.

So, if you want one, simply pick the one you like and enjoy; and quit worrying about which one a neighbor may select! This quasi-religious fanaticism for one platform or another is more akin to a psychosis than to anything rational.

And sorry XBox and PS3 fanboys, neither appears destined to take over the world.

Microsoft Slashes Xbox 360 Sales Estimates

by Scott Fulton

1/26/2007

As BetaNews first reported early yesterday evening, ("Huge Xbox 360 Sales Boost Microsoft Revenue"), during its regular quarterly earnings call, Microsoft Chief Financial
Officer Chris Liddell stated he's cutting unit sales projections for
Xbox 360 game consoles for the first calendar quarter of 2007, by as
much as three million units.

While vigorous sales of about
10.4 million total units worldwide by the end of last year helped
Microsoft recoup the enormous, though anticipated, costs of having
built Xbox 360 in 2005 -- added to the costs of launching the Zune MP3
player in 2006 -- Liddell's warning seems to be a signal that the video
game market may be in for a slowdown in general.

Market share projections, Liddell said, will be unchanged -
meaning, Xbox 360 isn't expected to lose customers to either Sony's
PlayStation 3 or Nintendo's Wii. Instead, he appeared to be giving
signals that possibly rising inventory levels could be indicators of
demand declining at higher than seasonal levels.

Last month,
Microsoft executives provided guidance to industry analysts projecting
worldwide unit sales totaling 13 to 15 million units since launch, by
the end of March. Now that number looks more like 12 million,
indicating projected sales of only 1.6 million units this quarter.

The
downturn will also impact sales of software, accessories, and
subscriptions to Xbox Live, Liddell added, potentially bringing to an
abrupt end a stream of unexpectedly positive revenue from the
Entertainment and Devices division.

Earlier today, Liddell told
Reuters that he believes the first half of this year was always going
to be slow anyway, adding that there's a "reasonable amount of
inventory in the channel." Which certainly eliminates the possibility
that Microsoft's running out of consoles; the problem may be quite the
reverse.

[damonrpayne]

One of my favorite topics! Too bad there's a lot of FUD in this article. Let's review:

-Sony is talking of "outsourcing" the Cell processor to people who specialize in chip production. This is what everyone else does.

-PS3 is not selling well? On what planet? More sales launch-to-date than the xbox 360, the previous gen PS2, and record breaking pre-orders in Europe.

-BluRay is outselling HD-DVD by 2:1 margin and the market share is growing, granted the market share of HD formats is still barely 1% of what DVD is.

What planet?

Earth calling Damon.

And if you are going to quote sales figures, please distinguish between Blu-Ray disks and hardware units! Ooops! But any port in a storm!

Outsourcing the cell production....Hmmmm. You might have read a little further. To whom exactly? IBM isn't even producing it and there appears no reason for them to pick it up simply to absorb the costs that Sony can't! ...Been there and done that with Apple and low power G5 production! Oh, but they moved to a different processor base due to IBM's lack of incentive to devote additional resources to a product with only marginal support. And Toshiba? I think you will find them more averse to losing money than either Sony or IBM.

Your sale figures are utterly fantastic. And these have been the precise subject of the bruhaha the last 2 months.

This fanboy stuff has reached a fever pitch...and the similarities to the Monty Python Black Knight routine are stunning!

-IBM co-designed the chip I'm not sure they were ever producing it; there are many companies around the world who specialize in chip fabrication and the long-term cost saving measures that go with it. They are shopping around for one of those. How is this bad, again?

-Earth calling Damon? I can google and find reporters saying that the PS3 is "not selling well" without numbers to back it up. All official PS3 sales numbers point to the facts I've already stated.

-Software vs. Hardware: You bet. I thought it was clear in my post but maybe not. BD movies are outselling hd-dvd movies 2:1 with a widening gap, not hardware. If you take OUT the PS3, there is roughly a 4% lead for hd-dvd in standalone player sales when the last figures were published. Obviously the taking out of the PS3 is questionable since someone must be buying all those movies.

I read crap on the internet constantly, you could say I'm always reading further. I'm thinking you need to read a little further too.

Fanboy? Sure, why not. I made my avatar a BD symbol but that doesn't mean I live in a fantasy world. As far as I know, though, I haven't said anything that's not provable but I enjoy sarcasm so I'm not offended.

Are the standalone player #s out there? Check

Are the PS3 #s out there? Check

Can the PS3 #s be compared to the PS2 and XBox360 launch? Check

Are the Nielsen disc sales #s out there? Check

Are the European pre-order #s out there? Not sure on this one, we only have a statement from a Woolworths exec saying demand was overwhelming.

I'm not a huge monty python fan but I generally enjoy their skits, you'll have to send me a link to the black knight thing if its available.

[mas]

Name an independent CPU fab shop independently producing the complexity the cell requires? Better yet, if Sony can't poduce them in quantity without the additional pricing demand (as they source to themselves!), how is an independent 3rd party going to absorb the tooling and fab setup costs, manufacturing costs, and then add an additional markup and make a profit? They have at least 2 additional cost centers that Sony does not have, and even Sony can't make them profitably! Sometimes, just sometimes, economic realities take precedence over myopic religious zeal.

And I love the cited disk sales figures. You neglect to mention that these sales figures INCLUDE sales of the $15 credit toward a disk included with each Blu-Ray player. Think that has an impact?

The numbers have been out there, and everyone is not only readjusting ALL of their numbers (except cost overruns), but sales have not bee up to the initial projections. ...Except for Wii, the platform all of the 'big' players like to denigrate. It is rather fun to watch them kick all of the major player's butts! And to see the fun and the enthusiasm that those who have bought them enjoy!

Bottomline:

Games are a limited niche market. The percentage of gaming households is not changing significantly from the earlier generation figures.

The early reports of any platform dominating the world are absurd.

Games are a business. Period. Technology, etc. becomes secondary hype. If technology rulled, everyone would have a Porsche GT4 (hey, if it does I get to chose the technology I like!), but despite this there are a greater number of mini-van sales. Go figure! That must confuse the hell out of many of you fanboys... Failure to understand and appreciate greater market forces lead to the demise of Beta in the consumer marketplace. Learn from it!

Pick a platform and have fun. Leave the religion at home. If you persist in spouting it, accept that others have the same right to tell you to keep it to yourself.

[mas]

I must admit to having a grave distrust of anyone who is not intimate with Monty Python and the Holy Grail - even if they know nothing of their other work...let alone not being able to quote at least half of the movie at least one stanza before it is actually spoken in the movie - to the absolute distraction of others, or in rousing chorus if the other viewers are not so culturally challenged.

Granted, this scene loses a bit if you cannot see the graphics, but perhaps it will serve to inspire, or belittle if that works, others to quit spending so much time on other productive issues and to spend an hour and a half to expand one's cultural horizons. There...I got it out with only one or two bouts of absurdest doubt.

So, without further ado....an installment in the remedial series for the culturally deprived [][]:

The black knight

---

[King Arthur music]

[music stops]

BLACK KNIGHT:

Aaaagh!

[King Arthur music]

[music stops]

BLACK KNIGHT:

Aaagh!

GREEN KNIGHT:

Ooh!

[King Arthur music]

[music stops] [stab] BLACK KNIGHT: Aagh! GREEN KNIGHT: Oh! [King Arthur music] Ooh! Uuh. [music stops] BLACK KNIGHT: Aaaagh! [clang] BLACK KNIGHT and GREEN KNIGHT: Agh!, oh!, etc. GREEN KNIGHT: Aaaaaah! Aaaaaaaaah! [woosh] [bLACK KNIGHT kills GREEN KNIGHT] [thud] [scrape] BLACK KNIGHT: Umm! [clop clop clop] ARTHUR: You fight with the strength of many men, Sir Knight. [pause] I am Arthur, King of the Britons. [pause] I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the land to

join me in my court at Camelot.

[pause] You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me? [pause] You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy. BLACK KNIGHT: None shall pass. ARTHUR: What? BLACK KNIGHT: None shall pass. ARTHUR: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight, but I must

cross this bridge.

BLACK KNIGHT: Then you shall die. ARTHUR: I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside! BLACK KNIGHT: I move for no man. ARTHUR: So be it! ARTHUR and BLACK KNIGHT: Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc. [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's left arm off] ARTHUR: Now stand aside, worthy adversary. BLACK KNIGHT: 'Tis but a scratch. ARTHUR: A scratch? Your arm's off! BLACK KNIGHT: No, it isn't. ARTHUR: Well, what's that, then? BLACK KNIGHT: I've had worse. ARTHUR: You liar! BLACK KNIGHT: Come on, you pansy! [clang] Huyah! [clang] Hiyaah! [clang] Aaaaaaaah! [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right arm off] ARTHUR: Victory is mine! [kneeling] We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer-- BLACK KNIGHT: Hah! [kick] Come on, then. ARTHUR: What? BLACK KNIGHT: Have at you! [kick] ARTHUR: Eh. You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is

mine.

BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, had enough, eh? ARTHUR: Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left. BLACK KNIGHT: Yes, I have. ARTHUR: Look! BLACK KNIGHT: Just a flesh wound. [kick] ARTHUR: Look, stop that. BLACK KNIGHT: Chicken! [kick] Chickennn! ARTHUR: Look, I'll have your leg. [kick] Right! [whop] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right leg off] BLACK KNIGHT: Right. I'll do you for that! ARTHUR: You'll what? BLACK KNIGHT: Come here! ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me? BLACK KNIGHT: I'm invincible! ARTHUR: You're a looney. BLACK KNIGHT: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on,

then.

[whop] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's last leg off] BLACK KNIGHT: Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw. ARTHUR: Come, Patsy. BLACK KNIGHT: Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards!

Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite

your legs off!

[damonrpayne]

Name a CPU fab shop independently producing the complexity the cell requires?

And I love the cited disk sales figures. You neglect to mention that these sales figures INCLUDE sales of the $15 credit toward a disk included with each Blu-Ray player. Think that has an impact?

The numbers have been out there, and everyone is not only readjusting ALL of their numbers (except cost overruns), but sales have not bee up to the initial projections. ...Except for Wii, the platform all of the 'big' players like to denigrate. It is rather fun to watch them kick all of the major player's butts! And to see the fun and the enthusiasm that those who have bought them enjoy!

Bottomline:

Games are a limited niche market. The percentage of gaming households is not changing significantly from the earlier generation figures.

The early reports of any platform dominating the world are absurd.

Games are a business. Period. Technology, etc. becomes secondary hype. If technology rulled, everyone would have a Porsche GT4 (hey, if it does I get to chose the technology I like!), but despite this there are a greater number of mini-van sales. Go figure! That must confuse the hell out of many of you fanboys... Failure to understand and appreciate greater market forces lead to the demise of Beta in the consumer marketplace. Learn from it!

Pick a platform and have fun. Leave the religion at home. If you persist in spouting it, accept that others have the same right to tell you to keep it to yourself.

-I guess if I can't name one (not being in the chip-making biz) they don't exist. Intel, AMD anyone?, they bid on custom jobs like this constantly.

-Funny, I didn't get a $15 credit with my BD player. In fact, I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Can you provide a link or something on this, maybe I can help me and some of my BD owning friends get this $15 we apparently missed out on? It is, however, very well known that the toshiba players ship with a voucher for Three free hd-dvds, so which way are the #s being skewed? Think that has an impact? Or the Combo (DVD on one side) discs all being counted as hd-dvd purchases when there's no gaurantee they are not just going into a DVD player? The Nielson #s are not the only source of information either, though I do think they are a good one. http://eproductwars.com/dvd, http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp, are two other sources of data. Sure, we can argue about stats all day but is there any publicly available metric that shows hd-dvd outselling BD in software sales?

-Dominating the world? I don't think even Sony in their most rah-rah cheerleading moment has ever said that, and if they have then please direct me to quotes. One of these new formats beginning to show clear signs of leaving the other behind is all that's being said, and I have said many times that the total # of hd disc sales is still probably less than 1% of how much gets sold on DVD. Hell, DVD JUST passed VHS not too long ago, but does that prevent people from talking up DVD?

I own a Wii as well, my daughter likes it. When she goes to bed the PS3 comes out. I've definately chosen a platform (several platforms really) and I'm having fun, and I'm not attacking anyone just quoting facts. If you can show me where I'm being "relgious" and not just quoting publicly available information, then I'll either retract my statement, rephrase, or find a public metric to support it. I ain't that way.

[sunburnwilly]

Actually as far as PS launches go the PS3 was one of the better ones...and thats not saying much. Most consoles sold in the shortest amount of time. How quickly people forget that the PS2 was a horrid launch with HUGE supply shortages, and to top it off an even bigger shortage of Memory cards. If you got a PS2 you couldnt even save your stinking game progress...took me a month after launch until I got a memory card...All the naysayin on the PS3..is really a waist of time. Sony is not going to let the PS3 die...Period.At any rate.

The last level of RFOM you need to use your big guns. There is plenty of ammo stashed around so keep moving. Lob as many granades as you can at the Chimera when they are far away. Shotgun on the ones closest to you. The Big flying spider thing (forget the name) Use the Lark on him. Basically its an all out battle the faster and better you are at changin your weapons the better off you'll be.All the while keep shooting at the Rods with your Machine gun. Also dont forget to use the Bullseye tag, this way you can shoot and the bullets go directly to the target..you dont have to aim, and sometimes the bullets go around corners. Im on the Frozen Thames river now my second time through on "Hard mode. It is much harder cant wait to see how hard the last level is.

As with most of the hardware launches ... Admitidly , this is probably the worst . Heck , I'm still playing Resistance Call Of Man . "Anybody got any pointers on that last level ?" it's a ***** ....

Thanks

I had forgotten about the memory card fiasco with the PS2 launch .

[damonrpayne]

I must admit to having a grave distrust of anyone who is not intimate with Monty Python and the Holy Grail - even if they know nothing of their other work...let alone not being able to quote at least half of the movie at least one stanza before it is actually spoken in the movie - to the absolute distraction of others, or in rousing chorus if the other viewers are not so culturally challenged.

Granted, this scene loses a bit if you cannot see the graphics, but perhaps it will serve to inspire, or belittle if that works, others to quit spending so much time on other productive issues and to spend an hour and a half to expand one's cultural horizons. There...I got it out with only one or two bouts of absurdest doubt.

So, without further ado....an installment in the remedial series for the culturally deprived [][]:

mas: I am familiar with that, I don't recall it being a black knight, I get this film confused with the "Excalibur" movie. Anyhoo: just as a moistened wench distributing cutlery is no basis for a system of goverment, so too is familiarity with this movie no basis for a system of trust! I got some special edition of this film for xmas that I have yet to watch. All I'm saying in all these posts is that you don't have to take MY word for which species of unladen swallow can fly flaster, the reserach is all over the place.

[ndskyz]

Dont see how you can justfiy this statement. Wii has sold 4.5 million units in 4 months (or less) 360, 10Million units in 13 months. There is no such thing as a "bottomless market" No matter what you are selling. But to call gaming a Niche market..nevermind a "limited niche market" doesnt make sense to me. All markets have thier limits no doubt about that. I remember people sayin that the "videophile market" was a limited niche market with very little potential. Boy those guys got that one right too..

Also keep in mind that there are the "Core gamers" who have one of every console availble. Then there are those who buy them cause lil Billy "just gotta have one Mom" That pretty much gets rid of the "limited niche market" Because there are always gonna be Lil Billy's, and parents who will buy them what they want. I have yet to find a 13 year old kid that can afford to buy ANY of these consoles...

Games are a limited niche market. The percentage of gaming households is not changing significantly from the earlier generation figures.

[damonrpayne]

Gaming was a $12.5 billion market in 2006. Whether or not that is "niche" I suppose is up to your interpretation.

[mas]

You are right, the reporting is all over the place, and I have found these articles to support the points in just a 5 minute search on ONE site! And not even an industry related site at that!

PS3 Effect May Be Boosting Blu-ray Movie Sales

Scott Fulton 2/5/2007

Beginning with its first issue in February, Home Video Magazine
has been presenting "scale-tipping" graphs depicting the current status
of the battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray movie sales worldwide, based
on data provided by Nielsen VideoScan.

With only the second
installment, readers have noticed a striking trend that bodes well for
Blu-ray: In one week's time, the number of Blu-ray movies sold for
every 100 HD DVD movies sold since data was first tracked, increased
from 85.05 in the first week of January to 92.4 in the second.

Since HD DVD discs have been available for a longer period of
time, the prospect of Blu-ray catching up to HD DVD in discs sold
appears imminent. And with sales figures for high-def disc players
(excluding game consoles) just about dead even for both formats between
April and December 2006, with HD DVD holding a very slight lead,
according to NPD figures released last week, the sharp rise in Blu-ray movie demand may be attributable to Sony's PlayStation 3.

A
Nielsen VideoScan spokesperson confirmed to BetaNews this afternoon
that her firm tracks point-of-sale data where the customer makes the
exclusive decision to purchase discs. So the firm's data excludes bundle deals, such as copies of the Wil Farrell comedy Talladega Nights bundled with PS3s.

However,
it might include separate purchases of Blu-ray movies made using $15
coupons redeemable toward the purchase of one Blu-ray movie.

Nielsen VideoScan's data may be affirmed today by the latest sales ranking data from Amazon, which show the steady rise in Blu-ray movie relative sales rankings taking a sharp incline after
Christmas, when PS3s were unwrapped and first plugged in. The Amazon
data shows sales rankings for Blu-ray movies eclipsing those of HD DVDs
for the first time at about January 21, and pulling away since that
time.

Media relations representatives for Blu-ray supporting
studios, including 20th Century-Fox, were quick to declare the format
war already over, touting their own sales data showing Blu-ray discs starting to surpass HD DVD sales, again after Christmas.

----------------------------------

I still find the platform centric allegiance rather bizarre. Until either or both the platforms become commodities, the mainstream will not adopt them. And debating which platform, based upon a minuscule marketshares is outperforming the other is fascinating...especially with the fervor and vitriole the fanboy base provides - and yes, that is evident all over the net as well.

The real irony is that the real obstacle isn't the average consumer at all! It is each camps stubborn refusal to reach a middle ground where they produce players that will economically play BOTH formats. As long as the player can do this and is available at a commodity price near where existing consumer DVD players 'live', they are their own worst enemies. The irony is that NEC is manufacturing just such a chip. So what...

So who wins as long as they continue the internecine warfare? Not them. And certainly not us.

And until this is resolved, most of us don't really care. And what's even worse, the enterprise oriented IT industry doesn't care either, representing the loss of a huge market for media that potentially dwarfs the home media market. Economics DO matter.

Oh, and if you didn't get your $15 certificate towards a disk, you might want to contact Sony and thank them for just another aspect of their marketing gone awry.

[damonrpayne]

Of course a unified format would have been better, but they didn't arrive at one. One's choices are then to either sit it out, or pick one and support it.

Its just like any "team" mentality thing we have (politics, sports), some people are constantly watching the facts looking for who has the edge.

[mas]

Gaming was a $12.5 billion market in 2006. Whether or not that is "niche" I suppose is up to your interpretation.

A great example of statistics made to represent anything that we want.

Here is another statistic (and I wish I could find the total international value of automotive sales!)

In the US, automakers sold 1,354,365 vehicles in September. Of this GM had the No.1 sales spot. Ford was No.2, and Chrysler was No.4!

Sounds great doesn't it!? GM, Ford and Chrysler are borderline bankrupt. And GM is losing almost $1600 PER VEHICLE SOLD! But hey! Everybody party! They're number 1!

Likewise, to cite "gaming" figures and then to imply that XBox and PS3 constitute even more than a fraction of that is to misrepresent what is a niche market is simply to omit more than you included! And on top of that, Sony is experiencing financial difficulties with the PS3 as witnessed by Sony's own vice president!

But hey, GM is number 1!

What? Me worry? - Alfred E. Newman.

Want to see another industry that has followed a similar lifecycle? Look at the cell phone industry. Market realities trump personal belief.

Have you ever considered working in politics?[]

[mas]

Of course a unified format would have been better, but they didn't arrive at one. One's choices are then to either sit it out, or pick one and support it.

Its just like any "team" mentality thing we have (politics, sports), some people are constantly watching the facts looking for who has the edge.

Including the urge to believe and cite 'facts' either real, fabricated, out of context, or from any obscure perspective in order to support a preconceived and foregone bias.

Many believe in miracles such as a baby being spared from the wrath of a tornado, only by selectively focusing upon the survival while selectively ignoring the source of the storm that created the scenario to begin with and all of the associated devastation! Selective attention is a powerful tool, and one that is perhaps more often misused if objective reality is the measure.

The source of Descartes' 'mind-body' dilemma is exactly such a pseudo-problem. Just as Humpty Dumpty reflects this conundrum!

I can't wait for the next big international contest. What will it be? Sweet tarts versus licorice?

We indeed believe what we want to believe. But perhaps that is only fitting as the root of the word "belief" means "to Wish". And heaven knows that we as people, via our beliefs, do indeed "wish" many things true. Objective facts be damned.

And I guess that is the source of our disagreement.

I don't have a dog in this race. From a purely technological perspective, I prefer the Blu-Ray technology, but I am not impressed with Sony's abysmal marketing efforts throughout the technology's lifecycle (and no, marketing here refers to much more than simple advertising! Their strategic planning has been a recurrence of their heretofore demonstrated capacity that only few can claim to be the equal. how's that for a backhanded 'compliment'(sic)?) And as such I am not buying either format at this point. But I find the market analysis utterly fascinating.

[mas]

First Blu-ray HD Recorder Needs Dedicated TV

Scott Fulton, BetaNews 2/15/07

Sharp
officially released to the Japanese market yesterday the first Blu-ray
Disc recorder console to record high-definition TV content directly.
But Sharp's solution to the problem of securing the digital connection
between the recorder and TV tuner could become controversial: It
requires a dedicated link to the company's own Aquos brand HDTV units.

Sharp's
dedicated connection, called Aquos Fami-Link, uses a four-pin
derivative of FireWire for connecting components, called i.LINK. The
connection has been deployed for quite some time in Sharp's HDTVs and
DVD-R consoles capable of high-definition recording.

The BD-HP1 console is being described by Sharp as "one more way
to enjoy the AQUOS Fami-link, a setup that combines the AQUOS LCD TV
and AV equipment to provide entertainment."

The
unit promises three hours of HD recording time for terrestrial
broadcasts (which in Japan are 1035i); or two hours of 1080p HD
recording at full quality and six hours at slow speed. Sharp's
specifications indicate the unit will only record to BD and not to DVD.

Part
of the reason why manufacturers want a highly-controlled digital
connection between components is to comply with content providers'
wishes to disable individuals from making unauthorized, potentially
DRM-free copies of video content.

-----------------------------------------------

Anyone care to again debate the issues presented by the Trusted Computing Path and the AACS/HDCP DRM handshake and how its 'not an issue' to be anticipated if one is interested in such capabilities? [][]

Or do we instead simply get to listen to lots of folks complain and stomp their feet.

Chicken Little was right. []

[el jopez]

Whats funny about the whole situation is that BOTH HD-DVD and Blu Ray have as of this past week been 100% officially hacked; the entire copyright system bypassed. Under the hood the two discs share the same security architecture as they both need encryption keys to unlock and play the data. Well, its over now, and expect software ripping programs to appear on Source Forge.net in the coming weeks. This does raise questions though. If the copy right system was so similar under the hood, why was there such a problem between HD and Blu Ray? The stories I read always revolved not around space on the discs, but rather the ability to "lock down" the discs from consumers who "didn't know better". It would seem that the big companies were suffering from illusions of grandeur and from political power struggles more than anything.

Nowwhat does this mean to consumers? Well first off we win yet again, possibly short term, maybe even long term as the DVD platform has proven. However, since this is still relatively new, Hollywood could go back to the drawing board and re architect the security features for newer discs and require vendors to update the on board software which drives the decoding of said discs.

Add on top of that, with in the last week, Steve "Arrogant" Jobs has sent the music industry a letter saying how DRM has failed collectively and how it should end which the RIAA critically countered. EMI has voiced concerns about ending the madness that is DRM and offering DRM free music for sale now. Europe is equally disenfranchised about the whole DRM fiasco. Then add on top of that the RIAA wants ISP's to now turn over suspected P2P file shares and in turn receive a nice check per suspected "criminal". Luckily they aren't buyign it yet.: "The last time we checked, ISPs don't work for the RIAA, so until the
major record labels come to their collective senses, ISPs shouldn't be
handmaidens in their misguided lawsuit campaign." Yay for us.

I think I'm missing my calling in life.

[mas]

Nope.

They simply were able to determine the key.

But the fundamental system is agile. It is not a monolothic structure that once hacked stays hacked.

And AACS is simply a DRM schema, it is not fundamental to either format.

And as far as ol' Steve and Gates and Lacy from Corel and other rest of the herd of self-serving cats decrying DRM is concerned...

Look at what their real message is!!! It has NOTHING to do with "the people winning'. Save such altruism for someone else. They are decrying the difficulty of marketing an INTEROPERABLE format! In other words, it is hard to dominate a fractured/fragmented market! Their message is one of self-interest from the point of view of their ability to market hardware capable of playing all the various formats and of their potential to increase their percentage marketshare!

Without it the material that others have created and that others own effectively becomes public domain. And how quickly you and so many others are quick to claim rights over others' material. If you don't like it, buy the CD and rip it to your player - and I don't care if you only like one song on the CD! I am tired of the rant that some consumer has the rights to the material another has created. They have effectively set the terms of use. If you don't like it, don't buy it! But I am very tired of the infantile rant justifying theft.

And this 'all power to the people' crap is just another irrationalization for those who do not possess something self-righteously assigning themselves the right to someone else's property. I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year...

[Raider]

Last night I was driving my 8-year-old daughter home from gymnastics.  She often surprises me at how deeply she thinks things through, something I'm sure most parents will relate to.  For whatever reason,  out of the blue she asked me, "Daddy, did they design the Infiniti first, or the dealership?"  I thought this pretty well summed up the HD-DVD and BluRay dilemma.  Except apparently neither format has fully developed either the product or its distribution before bringing it to market.

[el jopez]

Interoperability is the reason I don't and never have bought music online or any mp3 player, namely the ipod; i deplore its existence and the everything thing it stands for now, antisocial values in a very global community.

But I wouldnt say that the big corporations are going to win this format war and copyright protection anytime soon. For as many people who can code to protect it for hire, there are just as many if not more who are willing to crack it for free and for thrills. I do not condone piracy, but in the end it hurts all consumers as the people who this technology is meant for doesn't ever reach them, it hurts everyone else who is law abiding.

Just another update on the war against DRM.

[mas]

Interoperability is the reason I don't and never have bought music online or any mp3 player, namely the ipod; i deplore its existence and the everything thing it stands for now, antisocial values in a very global community.

But I wouldnt say that the big corporations are going to win this format war and copyright protection anytime soon. For as many people who can code to protect it for hire, there are just as many if not more who are willing to crack it for free and for thrills. I do not condone piracy, but in the end it hurts all consumers as the people who this technology is meant for doesn't ever reach them, it hurts everyone else who is law abiding.

Just another update on the war against DRM.

I completely disagree.

MP3 and related formats offer convenience.

And as you have many choices, you are not necessarily limited, as you can download or rip material in any of the codecs!

And as far as hurting consumers? Nonsense!

The only folks who are disadvantaged are those who are trying to defeat and get around the DRM!

There are plenty of simple tools that remove it for archival purposes on any hardware format. AnyDVD, CloneCD and the rest of that application family effectively scrubs them all if you want to copy or archive or rip a DVD or CD.

You buy the CD and you can essentially do anything you want.

Not even the RIAA is going after that!

You want to play PS3 games, you buy a PS3 player (or whatever is licensed to play them). You want HD-DVD, buy an HD-DVD player. You want to play a CD, get a CD player.

As far as an MP3 or iPod, I don't care. The advantage of convenience is simply not a compelling need for me. Neither are cassettes! If it was, I would pick a format most compatible with my intended use and existing gear, choose a resolution that made the most sense for my intended use, and do it. Then I would either buy the program material or rip it from CDs I have already purchased. Am I being victimized? Perhaps, but only because I chose that particular format! No one forced me to enter into that particular format! Victim my @ss!

And this claim that it prevents people "who this technology is meant for (from) reaching them". BS! It is meant for those who buy the players and buy the program material! It was NOT meant for those who attempt to circumvent the mechanisms instituted by the rights holders! This is the claim of folks who ascribe to themselves rights to the use and ownership of material that they do not own!

But then I am sure that you will not mind me using your car and doing whatever I want with it whenever I chose, will you?

This rant that folks are being hurt and that society is in peril all because the owners of the material want to control its distribution is nonsense.Funny, where have all of you "what's yours is mine" folks been for the rest of your lifetime? I haven't heard any of you folks complaining that house keys and car keys are a repressive form of DRM? In fact the silence has been deafening! Oh, but then the house and the car is YOURS! Isn't it Funny how the perspective changes! This is all akin to folks who want unauthorized access to other's houses or cars complaining that they don't have a key! And to that I say "Stuff a sock in it!"

[]

[aviserated]

Let the price war begin.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4790608