Speaker match with Conrad Johnson

[fiddlefye]

I have a Conrad Johnson PV 12 pre and an MV 45 and I'd like some advice on which Klipsch designs might work best with such a pairing. The combination is actually brighter than one might expect (mostly courtesy of the pre, I think). I tried a pair of KG4 that I picked up for an experiment and they were scary, incredibly bright and no matter how I set them up, no noticable bottom end. I tried them on a couple of other amps as well with the same result. They became almost listenable with the bass on my Marantz 4300 turned full up and the treble backed off though the tonal balance was still wrong. I'm looking for a means to tame them (crossover) at the appropriate forum, but looking further down the road I'd love some thoughts on other possibilities from folks who've had much more experience with the various types than I have.

Thanks for any advice available!

[rplace]

See if you can snag a pair of Forte II. The cornwall would be a good choice too. I had a CJ pre at one time...a PV-5 or 7 perhaps. I liked it with my Khorns and my Forte IIs.

[middlecreekguy]

I second the Cornwall ideal. They go well with my PV-11. Another idea here is to roll a couple of different tubes in your CJ preamp. You may stumble upon a combination that will solve your problem all together.

[Allan Songer]

Well. in my office system I use a PV-10B with a pair of itty bitty Linn Kans!

But it works even BETTER with CORNWALLS!!!!

Mmmmmmmm Cornwalls Mmmmmmmmm

[fiddlefye]

Hmm, I spot a trend here. Seems to be that Cornwalls are well in the lead. I've never had the chance to hear a pair and I don't know anyone around here (Detroit) who has some to listen to, but I'll have to investigate. I'm also more than a bit curious about Forte II's as they'd be easier to fit into my listening room in terms of overall dimensions. Any further thoughts on them?

[oldbuckster]

Hard to believe what you wrote about KG4's having no bottom...............KG4's pushed with tubes has alot of bottom end..Cornwalls are nice, so are Forte's............Me, I like my Heresy's with a Sub and Tubes.......ever consider Khorns, or is room a factor????

[leok]

Does the MV45 have 4 Ohm or 2 Ohm outputs? Try the lowest Ohm output available. If there's an impedance dip in the KG4 in the bass, that will help. Also, can you skip the preamp completely, driving the amp directly from a CD player or Phono stage using a passive volume control or volume control in the player/stage? That's just to determine if the problem is really just the preamp, not the speakers. If you can get your hands on a little Sonic Impact amp, try that. It won't do structural damage to your house (or your ears), but has a reliably neutral sound with low impedance output and is a good cheap reference.

Try placing the KG4s in a corner. I believe they have rear firing port or bass radiator. I've heard KG4s driven flat (no tone controls) and I thought they were very nice. I actually prefer the 2 way sound to the three way sound of the cornwalls for much of what I listen to.

Good luck

Leo

[fiddlefye]

I had a loooong listen with the KG4's last night on the Marantz 4300 (full bass, backed off treble) and discovered something strange and interesting. The longer I listened, the more bass I heard. I played the same CD over two or three times and sure enough, more and more bass! I think I'm dealing with some sort of crossover issue maybe? I'm not a tech at all (violinist, in fact), but is it possible that these speakers had been sitting unplayed for a very long time before I got them and that there are some capacitors that are reforming or something such? This morning I brought the speakers down to my regular listening room and hooked them back up to the CJ stuff again. Completely different from the first time I heard them a couple of days ago! I'm listening to them as I type and while the balance is still quite a bit brighter than I think it should be it is slipping back toward what I figure is the normal range and changing by the minute. I'm guessing I'm listening to the results of some bad electrolytics having dried. Any opinions?

I posted some questions on another forum also and someone suggested I contact someone named Bob Crites here on Klipsch as he apparently has (or has access to) a much improved crossover for these speakers. If it appears that I really should be rebuilding the crossovers anyway I might as well go with the best replacement I can get, right? I'm also wondering if anyone knows where I could find the schematics for the original crossover that is there presently (mine are early vintage). At least that would give a starting place to work from.

I would definitely be interested in Khorns, but I'd really have to rearrange my listening room (which is also my teaching room and office) to find them a home. Fortes might be nice as well and would fit the floor space better. I am just starting to get back to playing with audio again after years of my system changing very little from year to year (having young children will do that to you!) and I missed hearing Fortes and such when they were new. How would they sound in comparison to the KG4's (when they're working properly?).

Thanks for all the advice, the more the better is how I always feel....

[leok]

Hmmmm .. one of the reasons I prefer the Klipsch 2-ways is I prefer how they handle violins. I suggest you don't dump the KG4s for a 3-way until you've made a comparison.

Full bass and treble backed off .. wow. Something's not quite right. Odd that if it's the speakers they would both be broken in exactly the same way. Thebes, if you're following this, wasn't that a pair of KG4s we were listening to on your downstairs system? Any ideas? Maybe I'm thinking of a different speaker.

Leo

[fiddlefye]

I've been in contact with the gentleman I was told had an improved crossover design for the KG4's and he doesn't think it is a capacitor problem, not even sure it would be a crossover problem at all. Just when you think you might see the light at the end of the tunnel....

I don't expect I'll dump the KG4's at any rate. I'd really like to solve whatever the issue is and even if they don't prove to be my ideal answer I'm sure they can find a home elsewhere in another system. I paid next to nothing for them, so I don't mind putting a bit into making them good. Comparing them with other Klipsch models would be exactly the sort of thing I like doing.

I'm sure the answer will show up eventually....

[thebes]

Welcome to the Forum. I'm a biog fan of the KG line but have never heard the 4's. I do have the KG 5.2' that Leok was thinking about and have also had 3.5's and 4.2's.

It's really strange to see your comments about the the bottom-end because all the KG's I've heard have good tight bass, their main problem being a little too shrill on top with not as big a middle as the the Heritage line. Maybe they just needed some time to loosen up.

I'm also jealous because I only have a PV3 but it does sound very good with the KG 5.2's. I've only run this pre through tube amps and am not sure what you are using as an amp.

I seem to recall the 4's have a rear-firing port and if so move them in and out from the wall and it will change your response. Also start them out 7ft apart and adjust from there. Those 12" passive woofers should give you plenty of bottom end so feel them to make sure they are vibrating when they are are playing.

Finally you may want to unscrew the two woofers from the cabinet and check that all wires are tight and connected. Could be something as a simple loose wire. I'm just guessing but a bad or loose cap on the crossover could be affecting things. Bob Crites and (BEC) and DeanG are our local exover gurus.

Oh and I'd be happy to hold onto that PV12 for a year or two while you play around with other pre's.[A]

[fiddlefye]

My KG4's are finally living again! Turned out that some bonehead of a previous owner had taken out the upper bass driver and rotated it 180 degrees. With the terminals from the two drivers now facing each other he wired them together with lamp chord, not even soldered in place. The net result of this stupidity was that the drivers were on opposite phase from each other and the wave forms were cancelling each other out pretty completely. They are now wired correctly and I have gobs of bass. I first tried them on the 4 ohm tap (they're 6 ohm speakers) and the bass was muddy and overwhelming and the mid-range subdued a bit. On the 8 ohm tap they sound great! One odd thing is that they seem to be improving as I play them. They were pretty raw and rough when I first hooked them up and they've refined quite a bit in the past couple of hours of listening. Next I guess I'll have to look into the crossover upgrade possibilities. I gather they can be much improved....

Thanks for all of the support and advice.