Powerlight 3 !!!!!

[michael hurd]

QSC is now making the powerlight 3 series amps, you can check them out at: http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/powerlight3/powerlight3.htm

These are very powerful amps designed to be punished day in and day out in a professional environment, and survive the most extreme conditions, while developing very high voltage levels into reactive loads. ( 185 volts for the PL380 ! ) [] Stick that on your subwoofer and smoke it!

[Speedball]

4000 watts? man, that's a lot.

[Roc Rinaldi]

It's not just 4,000 watts !!!!

It's 4,000 watts over what frequency range, with how many channels driven, at what THD please.

[michael hurd]

Download the PDF's at the link. If that is not powerful enough and you need more, there is the Crown I-tech and also LabGruppen for ya. Nice feature of the Crown is the ability to use a varying line voltage, and 230 vac is not a problem to ensure that you will get the most out of it. I have not priced the QSC yet, maybe I should for laughs. The Crown I-tech 8000 list is retarded.

AC Current Protection
At peak output, the PL380's PowerLight supply can draw up to 100A at 120V. To protect internal fuses, distro breakers, and power supply components, the system limiting will cut long term currents to 30A. AC protection does not occur on normal program material, even when the amplifier is driven into frequent clipping.

[TheEAR]

Michael,

Some interesting amps,I will check these out. Always in need of some juice to power the subs...

[masterxela]

haha, 100A. What is that 7 normal household circuits? Even the 30A.... Aren't most residential circuits 15 or 20A?

[michael hurd]

The write up states that it is about 80 % + efficient turning electrical power into actual useable power. Most other amp designs are not that efficient, save for a few, like the Crown I-tech.

Average long term power input is limited to 30 amps at 120 V.

[mas]

The best deals for Crown and QSC are to be found at the MI distributors - not 'hi-fi' dealers.

A quick net search will locate many of them. A good example is Musicians Friend where they offer free shipping and the guaranteed lowest price.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation?247SEM=&q=crown+amps&r=&src=00632

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation/live-sound-power-amps?N=100001+304600&Ntk=All&Ntt=qsc&Nty=1&page=1

Expect the Powerlight3 series to be available at retailers soon.

Beware of Sweetwater. Terrible prices and lots of hype with little substance.

[stormin]

It's not just 4,000 watts !!!!

It's 4,000 watts over what frequency range, with how many channels driven, at what THD please.

Oh my. Not another QSC doubter on rated powers. Any QSC that you spend any amount of money on over dime store prices these days will move your woofers like you haven't seen before. Yes my little 2422 does 425 wpc 20hz-20khz @ 8 ohms @ .03 THD and then nearly double that in 4 ohms @ 20hz-20khz @ .05 THD. I mean serioulsy when they sound better than an a big Aragon and overpower it in everyway the specs are real. Nay sayers be forewarned, QSC makes some killer amps that sound great on horns.

If memory serves my correctly, I believe it was Bob Carver who liked to exaggerate specs. No disrespect intended.

[DrWho]

Interesting....seems the digital amps have a bit more trouble with distortion based on how they're spec'ing the distortion.

Nevertheless, the power output capabilities are a bit insane and you can easily avoid the distortion by not driving it crazy hard - in which case it looks to be under 0.01% distortion (slight variance depending on load).

And it seems the output impedance is a bit high at the upper registers....not a huge deal, but it probably explains the distortion variance in the higher frequencies. It should be interesting in a few years when the technology will allow pushing the impedance rise outta the audible passband (like say 40kHz). Though I suppose many could argue it's already outta the audible passband of 80% of the market.

[Roc Rinaldi]

haha, 100A. What is that 7 normal household circuits? Even the 30A.... Aren't most residential circuits 15 or 20A?

Yes and yes.

[Roc Rinaldi]

It's not just 4,000 watts !!!!

It's 4,000 watts over what frequency range, with how many channels driven, at what THD please.

Oh my. Not another QSC doubter on rated powers. Any QSC that you spend any amount of money on over dime store prices these days will move your woofers like you haven't seen before. Yes my little 2422 does 425 wpc 20hz-20khz @ 8 ohms @ .03 THD and then nearly double that in 4 ohms @ 20hz-20khz @ .05 THD. I mean serioulsy when they sound better than an a big Aragon and overpower it in everyway the specs are real. Nay sayers be forewarned, QSC makes some killer amps that sound great on horns.

If memory serves my correctly, I believe it was Bob Carver who liked to exaggerate specs. No disrespect intended.

It looks to me like Bob C. & QSC both like to exaggerate power specs. a bit.

It is the powerhouses like McIntosh that can move forward with what I like to call "quiet confidence."

[DrWho]

Roc, what experience do you have with QSC products?

While I'm not exactly a QSC fan (diehard crown all the way), your

comments about exagerated performance could not be more off base. I

currently mix two or three shows a week using any one of five or six

sound systems that entail all sorts of different QSC amplification.

Every single one of their amps has been able to deliver their rated

power - and in fact, many times exceeding expectations too. And this is

only the recent past - I've used all sorts of QSC over the years. All

that to say, I would be extremely curious to learn about the specific

situations and models you've used that have not met your expectations.

Btw, are you familiar with thermodynamics and the conservation of

energy? An amplifier cannot output more power than it draws from the

wall. You cannot judge the performance of an amp because the typical

framework of its application does not lend itself to its full potential

- ie, just because typical wall voltage and current limitations won't

provide the full power input, doesn't mean the amp isn't capable. In

fact, take a trip to your local large live venue and you'll often find

generators spec'ed to provide the current and voltage needs of the show

- and in such situations such an amp could be used to its full

potential.

Man, how the heck did I get suckered into defending QSC? *bows head in shame*

[TheEAR]

QSC and Crown manufacture very high quality amps also Lab Gruppen is a serious company making some of the most powerful amplifiers at any price.

Plus to drive subs these pro amps are ideal. Cannot get any better than this. Find a high-end brand capable of over 1K per channel below 5K and we talk. Pro amps are very efficient,as they have to be.Nobody wants to haul 150lbs when you can do the same job with a 20lbs unit.

[michael hurd]

While the QSC PL380 will draw 100 amps on a 120 volt line, this is for nanoseconds, and the average current draw is higher from the wall than other amplifiers. The power supply inside the amp rectifies the ac line coming in, and chops up the DC at very high frequency.

[michael hurd]

Read this 3 page test of the Rockford T15KW to get a better understanding of "current averaging" to see how amps can produce the big power numbers. Dr.Who, this was the article I was looking for to scan and give to you, but I found it on the net instead.

http://www.caraudiomag.com/0606_cae_rockford_fosgate_t15kw_amplifier/

"You cannot put out more power than you take in, or can you? The answer is YES YOU CAN, for periods of time. The HT system in the T15kW stores a huge amount of energy, well into six figures of joules. It is capable of this by using the latest technology in capacitors designed for use in hybrid vehicles and large wind-turbine electricity generators. The operation of the system is somewhat analogous to the operation of a hybrid vehicle."

"So how can this work and why doesnt it just run out of energy? The key is that music is very dynamic, meaning it has loud times, like a kick drum, and relatively quiet times, like well, like anything that is not loud. During loud times, the system releases energy for instantaneous efficiency of well over 300 percent. During quiet times, it absorbs energy; the instantaneous efficiency at this point could be as low as 0 percent."

"The question has been asked, What about a sine wave, like for an SPL competitor? The T15kW has plenty of energy to get through a three-second sine wave burst."

" The capacitors in the T15kW come from the power industry, as in power generation, transmission and distribution. The intended use for these capacitors is for very large wind-turbine energy generators, like the type seen around Palm Springs, CA. They are also finding homes in hybrid vehicles."

"The great thing about these capacitors is their ability to store so much energy in a small package. (Each capacitor used in the T15kW holds about 5,500 percent more energy than a common electrolytic capacitor of the same physical size.) This, along with their very low ESR (equivalent series resistance), made them a good match for something that is charging and discharging them repeatedly"

[michael hurd]

Picture of the capacitor bank in the T15KW amp, these are high voltage caps.

[TheEAR]

This is what I call serious reserve,to meet all the peaks and passages when the amps have to spit more they draw for a very short period of time. Any quality amp had good reserve proportional to its rating. A few of my amps can play for up to 25-26 seconds after the power is turned down. So for the very short peak they can deliver several times more with no strain on the outlet.

[Roc Rinaldi]

Roc, what experience do you have with QSC products?

While I'm not exactly a QSC fan (diehard crown all the way), your comments about exagerated performance could not be more off base. I currently mix two or three shows a week using any one of five or six sound systems that entail all sorts of different QSC amplification. Every single one of their amps has been able to deliver their rated power - and in fact, many times exceeding expectations too. And this is only the recent past - I've used all sorts of QSC over the years. All that to say, I would be extremely curious to learn about the specific situations and models you've used that have not met your expectations.

Btw, are you familiar with thermodynamics and the conservation of energy? An amplifier cannot output more power than it draws from the wall. You cannot judge the performance of an amp because the typical framework of its application does not lend itself to its full potential - ie, just because typical wall voltage and current limitations won't provide the full power input, doesn't mean the amp isn't capable. In fact, take a trip to your local large live venue and you'll often find generators spec'ed to provide the current and voltage needs of the show - and in such situations such an amp could be used to its full potential.

Man, how the heck did I get suckered into defending QSC? *bows head in shame*

Dr. I have no experience with QSC. I was going by the way they listed their specs. as compared to other manufacturers.

QSC may be a great amp. I don't really, know so I apologize if I led anyone astray.

Doctor, keep me straight or at least forward.

[michael hurd]

Roc, I used to think like you in the fact that an amp cannot put out more than it takes in IE: Ohm's law. However, realize that these big power amps are not asked to play a continuous sinewave test tone at those power output levels and also the fact that music is dynamic in nature.

Did you read that article on that rockford T15KW? There was a little more explained in the actual magazine article, when I can scan it. It is easier to store more energy at a higher voltage than at a relatively low voltage.

We are all caught up on the wattage, however we should look at the output voltage, as this has meaning. 185 volts available at the speaker terminals is a big amount of potential. The Crown I-tech 8000 can deliver 200 volts, and I am not sure of what the LabGruppen will put out, but I am sure it is substansial.

Edit: Lab Gruppen FP13000, 6.5 KW x 2 in a 2RU package that weighs in at 26 pounds. 195 volts per channel RMS, with 58 amps RMS. In bridged mode operation, there is 390 volts available at the output terminals. Sure would not want to try running 12 gauge wire off of that to a large banck of subs, it would get hot and limit current, and you should definately use a wire that is rated for 600 volts.

Of course it comes with a 230 v 30 amp twist lock plug as well.... []