rcarlton Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 Having spent a couple of days listening I have come up with some preliminary thoughts regarding the MC-275 vs. the MC-250. I am using the Chesky Ultimate Demo disk as my reference disk. Most everyone on this forum should have a copy (highly recommended). Imaging is virtually the same between the two, voices, instruments etc. are all in the same exact place. A noticable difference in sound occurs in a song called Grandma's Hands on the Chesky disk. Near the end of the song you hear a muffled tapping of feet, with the MC-250 I thought he was wearing tennis shoes while tapping, with the MC-275 it sounds as if he is using a leather dress shoe. When I auditioned this piece at the Home Theater Store with a MC-46, MCD-201, MC-275 and B&W 803D's could not even make out the tapping. Notes from a grand piano seem to hang in the air longer with the MC-275. Overall sound between the two amps is very good. I can hear why many believe the MC-250 has a very tube like sound. I looked at the prices for the MC-250 and 275 and was surprised in how close they are to each other. The MC-275 was manufactured from 1961-1970, with a last retail price of $444, while the MC-250 was manufactured from 1967-1979 with a last retail price of $429. Adjusting for inflation, in 1979 the MC-275 would have sold for ~$800. There is a neat little website which calculates this for you. Today the MC-250 would cost between $1,200-2,100, while the MC-275 Mk V sells for $3,900. More impressions coming as I do more listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 "Near the end of the sound you can hear a muffled tapping of feet, with the MC-250 I thought he was wearing tennis shoes while tapping, with the MC-275 it sounds as if he is using a leather dress shoe. When I auditioned this piece at the Home Theater Store with a MC-46, MCD-201, MC-275 and B&W 803D's could not even make out the tapping." Very good report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 Found a 15 April 1970 McIntosh price list: MC-250 $379.00 MC-275 $444.00. Wow! Real close in price. The MC-2505...fancy version of the MC-250 with the blue meters went for $449.00! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Nice preliminary rundown here......I enjoyed reading it. Those subtle nuances are the stuff that tubes are made of - you will come to notice more of these qualities over time. I made the switch from MC-250s to tube amps (MC-30s and VRDs) in two separate systems, and can attest to the pleasures of the upgrade to tubes. The MC-250 is a very nice sounding amplifier, particularly on the Heritage, but it cannot convey the clarity and grain free benefits of the tube counterparts. The recent MC275 editions are certainly interesting - wish I could spend some time with one. I only have one complaint about the new Mac tube amps, and that is that they offer none with tube rectification (my preference for Heritage). That said, the newer 275s are amps I would definitely like to listen to. Seem from all accounts to be a very good amp. Reading those old price sheet numbers is interesting. They aren't so close in price anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Damn Man those a fine looking speakers...........You are a lucky man...thanks for the bigger shot of them......Awesome, really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Wow - Did you veneer those yourself? They look awesome. It's nice to have pretty gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 For those who like measurements attached is a graph showing the differences my microphone hears. The MC-250 was gone over last year by Terry DeWick and is up to specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I'm not surprised at the 50hz and below area or the area around 2k, but the area above 10k surprises me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Wow - Did you veneer those yourself? They look awesome. It's nice to have pretty gear. meagain, This thread explains how I veneered the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrhp Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 ron, Let us know if you ever decide to put those heressy on the market. it is almost impossible to find any exotic looking klipsch here in houston. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Nice looking amp. Stay dry up there Been 35 years since I first heard foot tapping on a record... "Goin' down town gonna see my gal, Goin' down town gonna see my gal, Gonna sing her a song..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 ron, Let us know if you ever decide to put those heresy on the market. it is almost impossible to find any exotic looking klipsch here in Houston. tom Tom, I don't use these speakers at all. They have had the caps refreshed. If you are interested PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Wow, sounds to me like a deal could be in the works...sweet! The review and graph just proves to me what an outstanding value the classic (and updated to spec) SS MC250 is soundwise in comparison to the even more outstanding new MC275! Like I've always said, had I not gone the 300B SET route, I'd still be enjoying my recordings driving my Klipsch with the near-mint '72 MC250 I had a few years back (damn, I wish I had never sold it, but I needed the dough). It was most certainly the closest sounding to tubes any SS amp I ever owned could get IMHO. I assume the MC250's autoformers may have had something to do with its warm, tube-like sonics...I still miss that ol' amplifier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 One month ago I purchased a McIntosh MC-275 Mk IV to replacemy MC-250 for two-channel and home theater listening. Terry DeWick restored myMC-250 to specs last year. Back in 1970 the MC-275, 75 watts/channel, sold for $444 andthe MC-250, 50 watts/channel, was $379 (the MC-2505 sold for $449, the bluemeter version of the MC-250). Based on the similar prices one would assume theywould sound about the same. Listening test: I used Cheskys Ultimate Demonstration Disc to test theamps. The Chesky disc is well recorded and easily available. I have listened to many CD's with the amplifier in the past month. The system consisted of Klipschorns, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C, DenonAVR-3200, and Monster cable. High resolution: Spanish Harlem. Rebecca Pigeons voice wasvery distinct and filled the room, the MC-275 seem to put a halo around her voice.Heard more of a sharper distinction in the vocals with the MC-250. Edge MC-250. Depth: If I Could Sing the Blues. Virtually identical.Placement of the trumpet is identical, about 15 feet behind and to the right ofthe microphone. Tie. Midrange purity: Grandmas Hands. Near the end of the songyou can hear tapping of feet, seemed more distinct with the MC-275. With theMC-250 sounded like they were wearing tennis shoes, with the MC-275 they mighthave been wearing dress shoes. Edge MC-275. Holographic Imaging: Festival Te Deum. Certainly can tell thispiece was recorded in a large cathedral. No edge to either amp. Tie. Bass Resonance. Maybe more detail in the MC-275, especiallyas the fingers moved down the strings. Slight edge MC-275. Appearance: Edge MC-275. Who can resist the glow of the tubes? Measurements: Measured the room response curve of both amplifiers using full rangetest tone from Room EQ Wizard. The MC-275 seems a little flatter in the higherranges and does a better job at 15-17 KHz. Lower end the curves track realclose. Edge MC-275. Overall: Slight edge to the MC-275. Conclusions: The newer MC-275 Mk IV beat the MC-250 by asmall margin in my very subjective tests. Is the difference in price betweenthe MC-275 at $3,900 and MC-250 at $450 (after a going over by Terry DeWick)worth it? The MC-250 is one heck of a value. Very warm, tube like sound at 1/8th theprice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 The graph in the above post showed how the amplifiers worked in my listening room. The only way I could remove the room from the equation is to use an anechoic chamber, which I don't have in my listening room. As I have done before, piled 2" and 4" bass traps (OC-703) around the left speaker to remove as much of the room effect as I could. Here the MC-275 Mk IV really shines, much smoother and flatter curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 A good question to ask is how effective my pseudo-anechoic chamber is? I made a measurement with the left speaker (in the chamber) off and only right speaker playing. As expected the low frequencies were not blocked, but it did a terrific job with the high frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 How do each of the amplifier curves compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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